BLO/ Poly - why mix?

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Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
A random thought here, before it escapes again. I've used the home-brewed mix of Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO, Mineral Spirits (MS) and Polyurethane lots of times. It's like ketchup, it goes well on everything.

But why mix it? This finish usually requires several coats. Won't the poly make it harder for the BLO to penetrate? Won't the poly close things off making it harder for the BLO to cure? Likewise, won't the BLO make it harder for the poly to cure, causing more dust nibs than needed?

In other words, why not apply BLO by itself, then poly?
 

ptt49er

Phillip
Corporate Member
I think it's so the poly doesn't build up such a film. By mixing the two it allows for a little more protection due to the poly, but a softer feel because of the BLO.

Atleast that's how I see it, I dunno if it's right or not.
 

walnutjerry

New User
Jerry
One of the reasons for the BLO is the fact it tends to darken the wood giving it a richer looking color. That richer color raises the value of the object by 10%-lol.

Jerry
 

Ken Massingale

New User
Ken
Bas,
I consider the mixture a wipe-on formula. On occassion I do apply BLO then Poly, but only the rare times I brush Poly. I also apply BLO before spraying some finishes.
Normally I'm a wiper!
 

Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
Bas,
I consider the mixture a wipe-on formula. On occassion I do apply BLO then Poly, but only the rare times I brush Poly. I also apply BLO before spraying some finishes.
Normally I'm a wiper!
Right, I wipe this mix as well (wipe on - wipe off - lefta circle - righta circle - don't forget to breathe, very important!). But if you thin poly with MS 1:1, it wipes on really well, BLO or no BLO (I think the Minwax wipe on poly is the same as their regular product, but thinned....).

So, just to get this perfectly clear, let me rephrase the original question:
Option 1: Mix 1 part BLO, 1 part MS and 1 part Poly. Wipe on several coats, lightly sanding inbetween coats.
Option 2: Mix 1 part BLO with 1 part MS. Wipe on several coats, let cure. Then, mix 1 part Poly with 1 part MS. Wipe on several coats, lightly sanding inbetween coats.

Any reason option 1 is better than option 2, or vice versa?
 

jlwest

Jeff
Corporate Member
BAS,
I have never mixed oil with poly. I make my own wipe on with 25% MS and poly or just buy the minwax brand which works quite well. I am confused on why to use the oil. I might learn something here , again. Tung oil gives a nice oil finish and wipes on. I need enlightenment!!!

Jeff
 

DaveO

New User
DaveO
So, just to get this perfectly clear, let me rephrase the original question:
Option 1: Mix 1 part BLO, 1 part MS and 1 part Poly. Wipe on several coats, lightly sanding inbetween coats.
Option 2: Mix 1 part BLO with 1 part MS. Wipe on several coats, let cure. Then, mix 1 part Poly with 1 part MS. Wipe on several coats, lightly sanding inbetween coats.

Any reason option 1 is better than option 2, or vice versa?

The way I think of it is mixing some BLO with the Poly cause it to act more like a long oil varnish and takes away some of the plastic-ness of the straight Poly finish. This can provide a little better repair-ability to the finish and a little more in the wood feel.
If you apply BLO first (great for adding some color to the wood and popping the grain. Then apply a thinned Poly finish over top, with enough applications you will end up with a straight Poly finish. A very tough finish, but one that is difficult to repair (due to Poly's abrasion resistance) and kind of a plasticy coating.


Dave:)
 

Travis Porter

New User
Travis
Mixing BLO with MS buys you nothing but using more MS and the way you scrimp on money I don't think you want to arbitrarily use more MS. ;-)

Mixing the MS with the poly thins the poly making it a wiping finish.

You could just brush the poly full strength. So, mixing the 3 gives you the yellowing of BLO and a wiping poly in one treatment.
 

G_ville_worker

New User
Bryan
I have used this as well and thought the same thing as Bas. I did a project using this finish in December and I left thinking the only difference was that it took forever for it to dry on each coat.
 
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Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
What I have read (and I don't remember where) said not to use Poly in a wipe on mixture with BLO.

Modern Spar varnish is a little short on oil so it doesn't give the penetration that a long oil varnish or just pure oil does. I like penetration. It gives the wood life, depth, warmth and glow.

So adding oil makes it a long oil varnish. I am playing with organic, raw linseed oil now to see how that affects the wood. I have heard that it is a little slower drying but gives an even deeper effect to the wood.

Mixing oil with poly just seems wrong to me. Natural oil and plastic varnish have sort of opposite properties. Maybe that is why some like it mixed. It penetrates a little and dries a little faster than spar varnish.

I just like the look I get with a long oil wiping varnish, applied hot and hand rubbed.
 

G_ville_worker

New User
Bryan
What (if any) change is there when you throw pure tung oil in the mix? Like the Maloof finish Rockler sells.

1 to 1 to 1
BLO:Tung Oil:Varnish
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
I think TRUE tung oil is tougher than either BLO or varnish. But if I had it I would leave out the BLO.

Maybe would just use the tung oil. But I haven't seen true tung oil in years. I know it's out there, but most manufacturers add other oils and chemicals to it.
 

walnutjerry

New User
Jerry
I think TRUE tung oil is tougher than either BLO or varnish. But if I had it I would leave out the BLO.

Maybe would just use the tung oil. But I haven't seen true tung oil in years. I know it's out there, but most manufacturers add other oils and chemicals to it.

It is out there Mike ---check out the link Jeff posted. Last I bought was from that company-------very pricy, 58.00 a gallon the last time I bought.

I used it 50/50 with BLO to make 1/3 of the oil/thinner/urethane mixture. It takes longer to dry than BLO.

Jerry
 

MrAudio815

New User
Matthew
It is out there Mike ---check out the link Jeff posted. Last I bought was from that company-------very pricy, 58.00 a gallon the last time I bought.

I used it 50/50 with BLO to make 1/3 of the oil/thinner/urethane mixture. It takes longer to dry than BLO.

Jerry


It's $41 a gallon for the pure tung oil, and $56 a gallon for the Dark raw tung oil. To save cost you could split the gallon between two people. A lot cheaper that way than buying it at 32oz.

So now I usaully use BLO, anyone have pictures of the difference between BLO and pure tung oil? It would be nice to compare. And what are the advantages of using BLO over Tung oil or the other way around?
 

fergy

New User
Fergy
This thread made me pull out Jeff Jewitt's books last night to review.

BLO apparently dries a little softer than true tung oil, and has a little more of an ambering property at first. Over a year or so, it yellows somewhat.

Is this what others here find as well?

I'm assuming it can be topcoated with most oil-based finishes, but it removes the repairability feature that these long-oil finishes have. Is there anything to stay away from?
 

TexasTimbers

New User
Kevin
I never liked the BLO/MS/poly mixture either. I experimented with it for several weeks on various pieces back in the early 90s. Humidors mostly.

As to pure tung oil, it is not all it's cracked up to be either. One of my favorite finishes is made by Sutherland Welles, and it is a polymerized tung oil. It has all the wonderful characteristics that have been mythically attributed to tung oil over the years, but none of the failings that pure tung oil has in reality.

Plus, no plasticy look, and e-a-s-y to repair.

All of their products that I have used, are superior to anything I have ever used. I especially love, as mentioned the polymerized tung oil and also the exterior spar varnish they make. Customer service and free advice is unsurpassed.

They are a hair slow updating their website - I mean, they still have Christmas wreaths up. :wsmile: But don't let that fool you. First time i ordered from them i was blown away. After the lady helped me choose the products I needed, she said "Your invoice will be in the box, just drop us a check when you get it". I thought I was the only one still doing business that way. :gar-Bi

Sutherland Welles

For those that won't click the link, I would like you to read this short excerpt from the "History" link on their website. Anyone considering using their products should read the entire site, especially the "finishing tips".:

TUNG OIL VERSUS OTHER FINISHES

In recent years, those who appreciate the warm richness of beautiful wood have begun to realize what the ancient Chinese knew; when turned into a finishing product, Tung Oil is the finest natural wood finish in existence and has yet to be duplicated synthetically!

Man's ingenuity has created many synthetic finishes, including lacquer, shellac, and varnish all of which protect wood with a hard impervious layer. But these surface finishes prevent the development of patina, the lovely depth and tone that only natural aging can produce. Eventually synthetic finishes will break down and discolor, when that happens the entire surface must be removed by labor intensive stripping and sanding before another coat is applied.

Penetrating finishes formulated with linseed, soy or paraffin oils actually go into the wood and enhance its natural beauty, but these oils often dry incompletely and fail to form a hard and durable surface. Furthermore, they develop a gummy build-up when additional coats are applied. Linseed oil, the most commonly used penetrating finish, darkens and changes color with time and finally disintegrates.

A Polymerized Tung Oil finish is hard yet flexible, waterproof and impervious to alcohol and many food acids. Polymerized Tung oil as a penetrating oil allows wood to continue its aging process and to develop its patina. The wood's rich color and grain are enhanced by the natural ambering (coloring) of Polymerized Tung oil over time. Any sign of wear disappears when a thin "maintenance" coat of oil is rubbed in. The maintenance coats, rather than cause a build-up, actually improve the patina as they protect and preserve the wood. A floor, a piece of furniture, or any other wood object finished and maintained with Polymerized Tung Oil will never have to be stripped again. The finish will become more beautiful with time.

POLYMERIZATION AND FORMULATION

As Tung Oil dries and cures, the molecules join together in a tight complex formation. This process is the secret to Tung Oil's effectiveness as a finish. The cross linking of the oil's molecules makes the surface waterproof and impervious to many chemicals. The bonding also gives flexibility to the surface, making it capable of withstanding wear and tear.​
 
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