Any Hide Glue Fans??

[Claus]

I’m intrigued by the reversibility and other benefits of hide glue. I just finished my first hide glue project and learned a few things and generated some questions.

I started with liquid hide glue, specifically Old Brown Glue. I assumed it can be used right out of the bottle but then the instructions said to heat it first. So I used a glass jar in a hot plate water bath and that worked pretty well. Is that really necessary or is it usable at room temperature out of the bottle?

So now I’m thinking if I have to work with heated glue I might as well go right to mixing it myself with purchased glue granules. Are there any advantages to using that type rather than the liquid? Are there any major disadvantages?

Christopher Schwarz has published some recipes for making hide glue from grocery store Knox gelatin, but that costs per pound almost as much as granules so I haven’t tried it. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Have any other hide glue experience or recommendations? I’d love to hear about it, especially for chair making.

Thanks for your input

 

[mdbuntyn]

Is that really necessary or is it usable at room temperature out of the bottle?

Technically, you can use OBG at room temperature, but it's a little thick. It flows better when its heated (Titebond liquid hide glue is less viscous at room temperature, but it has more additives).

 

[MarkDarby]

I frequently use it — cleanup is much easier and fitting the joints is, too.

 

[KenOfCary]

Dan O'Sullivan (danmart77) is an expert with hide glue. He even taught a workshop at Phil's shop about using it in projects such as veneering.

Go to search at the top right and then select advanced search. Use hide glue as the search term and danmart77 as the poster and you'll get many many hits on useful posts.

 

[red]

I've used it in the past and it works great. Hide glue is why we can take apart and repair old furniture. I am a fan.

Red

 

[creasman]

I mostly only use hide glue now -- both hot and liquid. OBG is my goto for liquid hide glue. You want to warm it before using, but don't get it too hot. Around 120 degrees is sufficient. I just put the bottle in hot tap water for a few minutes before using.

For hot hide glue I use 192 gram strength. I add water to just above the crystals and wait a few hours for it to soak. After that I heat it to 150 degrees to use. You need to not overheat as that will make it not work.

The life of each can be extended by storing in the fridge. For hot hide glue you can pour it out on a plastic sheet, let it harden and then store dry. To re-activate add some water and reheat.

I find hide glue has a number of advantages.

• It's reversible as you mention.
• You can create a rub joint by applying glue, rubbing the two pieces together until they tack and set it aside to dry -- no clamping necessary.
• Hide glue doesn't affect the finish they way PVC glues do by preventing stain/finish.

 

[hymie123]

I really like Liquid Hide Glue (titebond) for complex glueups or if I think I may need to disassemble later. I learned this spring that Liquid Hide Glue is very dependent on the relative humidity of your shop. My shop is conditioned but humidity was around 65% in the spring. My glueup never cured after 2 days but rather dripped all over the floor. After a long email discussion with Titebond, which has fantastic customer support. Titebond, said the humidity needed to be 50% or less. I placed a dehumidifier in the shop and reglued the joint. The next morning everything was cured!

Titebond's recommendation if you cannot control humidity: Choose a different product

 

[danmart77]

Another advantage to hot hide glue:

Adding salt to the mix will allow the user extended dry time. Very usefull for chairmakers needing more time before the glue tacks. Another advantage is you can clean out the socket, put new glue on the joint and put it back together with no worries like you get from synthetic glue. Not mentioned in the thread, if you order it in different strengths like 256grm it is stronger but sets up quicker than 192grm. This is not broadcast to the public when buying. Additionally, hide glue makes a great sealer on bare wood. You have to thin it down to get it to work best.

 

[mkepke]

Thanks for the thread. I’m going to have to try OBG. Tried Titebond hide glue years ago but it was waaay too runny.

-Mark

 

[creasman]

Patrick Edwards (maker of OBG) has a detailed blog post on hide glue, including liquid hide glue. He specifically discusses the differences between OBG and Titebond liquid hide glue.

 

[Robert LaPlaca]

I use about 95% hide glue for the furniture I have built. I sporadically have used OBG, it works well, as stated previously, the glue must be heated for it to become brushable. I have never used the Titebond variant..

I mostly just usehot hide glue 192 gram high purity granules. Depending on the job at hand will add anywhere from 10-15% urea or pickling salt by weight to the mix, this will suppress gelling slightly 1-5 minutes. The up side of adding suppressants, they will preserve the hide, even without refrigeration, straight hide will spoil pretty quickly otherwise.

If you want to go full OBG you can add 30% of salt or urea, I try to never get close to using that high a percentage of suppressant..

 

[danmart77]

I’m intrigued by the reversibility and other benefits of hide glue. I just finished my first hide glue project and learned a few things and generated some questions.

I started with liquid hide glue, specifically Old Brown Glue. I assumed it can be used right out of the bottle but then the instructions said to heat it first. So I used a glass jar in a hot plate water bath and that worked pretty well. Is that really necessary or is it usable at room temperature out of the bottle?

So now I’m thinking if I have to work with heated glue I might as well go right to mixing it myself with purchased glue granules. Are there any advantages to using that type rather than the liquid? Are there any major disadvantages?

Christopher Schwarz has published some recipes for making hide glue from grocery store Knox gelatin, but that costs per pound almost as much as granules so I haven’t tried it. Does anyone have any experience with this? This is the eqivalent of hot hide 140gm strength. What's the point? You can use fish glue for less cost.


Thanks for your input

Linen Press Walnut

ncwoodworker.net

Advantages to hot hide. Too many to list all of them but most importantly- one can choose the level of strength from hot glue. I use the 192 most often for its strength and ease of use while veneering.
I have a source for purchasing flakes/granuals in NC that is unbeatable. I use hot hide most often for the last 40 years and I am building a steel string guitar with hide right now. Jim Creasman above has sited Patrick Edwards out in San Diego as the maker of Old Brown Glue which is a fine glue but it has limits and its expensive. I make my own glue and add salt to the mix to slow it down like Robert LaPlata mentions. Either way you approach hot hide its a winner. My advice is to get some from a reliable source and start using it on the test bench to get a feel for this stuff.
Good Luck
Dan

 

[Burly John]

Before I moved from Pennsylvania, I used granular hide glue and really liked it. I used an inexpensive, little electric pot designed for melting wax for beauticians/manicurists to keep the glue hot during the work period. I also found it useful to have a hot-air gun on hand to heat the to-be-glued joint, especially in the Pennsylvania winter. I never added salt - I don't recall reading about adding salt before this forum - but I do know some people add urea to extend the open time. Never did that either.
One drawback is that you have to plan ahead. You can't whip it up a few minutes after entering your shop. For the process I followed, the granules need to be rehydrated overnight and then dissolved with additional water. If you store the working glue in the refrigerator, it needs to be heated to about 140F before use; if you leave the glue-pot hot, it WILL spoil and stink. Oh, the glue has an odor some people find unpleasant.
FWIW, I plan to return to hide glue once I actually get a functioning workshop here.

 

[jfynyson]

I really like Liquid Hide Glue (titebond) for complex glueups or if I think I may need to disassemble later. I learned this spring that Liquid Hide Glue is very dependent on the relative humidity of your shop. My shop is conditioned but humidity was around 65% in the spring. My glueup never cured after 2 days but rather dripped all over the floor. After a long email discussion with Titebond, which has fantastic customer support. Titebond, said the humidity needed to be 50% or less. I placed a dehumidifier in the shop and reglued the joint. The next morning everything was cured!

Titebond's recommendation if you cannot control humidity: Choose a different product

I just used this material for the first time and really loved it for the complex glue up but I'm next looking at using it for a French cleat and my space is around that 60% humidity (especially right now) so thanks for the watch out ! I could run a dehumidifier in that space for a couple days before use.

Did Titebond by chance say if after fully cured with humidity levels of greater than 50% cause the glue to fail ?

 

[jfynyson]

I just used this material for the first time and really loved it for the complex glue up but I'm next looking at using it for a French cleat and my space is around that 60% humidity (especially right now) so thanks for the watch out ! I could run a dehumidifier in that space for a couple days before use.

Did Titebond by chance say if after fully cured with humidity levels of greater than 50% cause the glue to fail ?

I’m following up on my question above and similarly, can anyone tell me if they’ve used hide glue for glue ups with humidity between 55-60% with or without success ?

I’ve asked this on my French cleat thread but posting here as well in case this more specific folks looking at this hide glue thread have any insight.

 

[danmart77]

I have used hot hide glue for 30 plus years year-round in Durham and never had a problem with drying. There seems to be a misconception on the Olde Brown Glue that is sold by Pat Edwards and granulated hide glue sold by retailers. To clarify a bit further, the OBG is not just hide glue in a bottle. It is treated with urea to slow the dry time and keep it "convenient" for users that want the benefit of reversibility without any preparation issues.

If you can take a minute to view the best supplier of hide glue in the US, go to this site and see what is available to you.

Shop Bjorn Hide Glue - Bjorn Hide Glue

We have been selling only the best Hide Glue for over 25 years! Check out all the grades and quantities we offer here! With all the free know how!

bjornhideglue.com

If you have questions, they will answer them for you. Glue is all they do and they are located in Matthews NC. I have purchased my hide glue for 40 years from Eugene at Bjorn and he is the best for high quality hide glue for woodworking purposes.

Now remember this is glue you have to prepare and adjust for your specific purposes. Including glue work in high humidity. Good Luck.

 

[jfynyson]

I have used hot hide glue for 30 plus years year-round in Durham and never had a problem with drying. There seems to be a misconception on the Olde Brown Glue that is sold by Pat Edwards and granulated hide glue sold by retailers. To clarify a bit further, the OBG is not just hide glue in a bottle. It is treated with urea to slow the dry time and keep it "convenient" for users that want the benefit of reversibility without any preparation issues.

If you can take a minute to view the best supplier of hide glue in the US, go to this site and see what is available to you.

Shop Bjorn Hide Glue - Bjorn Hide Glue

We have been selling only the best Hide Glue for over 25 years! Check out all the grades and quantities we offer here! With all the free know how!

bjornhideglue.com

If you have questions, they will answer them for you. Glue is all they do and they are located in Matthews NC. I have purchased my hide glue for 40 years from Eugene at Bjorn and he is the best for high quality hide glue for woodworking purposes.

Now remember this is glue you have to prepare and adjust for your specific purposes. Including glue work in high humidity. Good Luck.

Thanks for the reference! I reached out to them posing the humidity question.

 

[Rwe2156]

Don’t know if this was mentioned, but for me a huge benefit is that any residual glue doesn’t interfere with finish. This is especially nice with veneering. You have to make your own for hammer veneering. OBG can’t be hammer veneered b/c it contains urea and doesn’t set up fast enough.

 

[jfynyson]

Following up as I heard back from Bjorn. Here’s some of the excerpts from Eugene’s response…basically shop relative humidity is not an issue for proper adhesion.

Response to question/concern: …never heard that “ hide glue should be used at a humidity level of 50% or less “ (Maybe had to do with ideal conditions). Consider all the woodworking shops big and small in the world, shops in the home, in a factory, in the garage, in all levels of environment, controlled and uncontrolled temperatures etc and many been using hide glue very successfully…
Dry hide glue has a moisture content of about 10 to12% (depending on storage conditions ). When you prepare it with water, all that water will be released during the curing stage and the wood and glue moisture content will return to normal, in the constructed item.”

I hope this helps and thanks again for the reference to Bjorn !

 

[danmart77]

I’m intrigued by the reversibility and other benefits of hide glue. I just finished my first hide glue project and learned a few things and generated some questions.

I started with liquid hide glue, specifically Old Brown Glue. I assumed it can be used right out of the bottle but then the instructions said to heat it first. So I used a glass jar in a hot plate water bath and that worked pretty well. Is that really necessary or is it usable at room temperature out of the bottle?

So now I’m thinking if I have to work with heated glue I might as well go right to mixing it myself with purchased glue granules. Are there any advantages to using that type rather than the liquid? Are there any major disadvantages?

Christopher Schwarz has published some recipes for making hide glue from grocery store Knox gelatin, but that costs per pound almost as much as granules so I haven’t tried it. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Have any other hide glue experience or recommendations? I’d love to hear about it, especially for chair making.

Thanks for your input

I have experience with hot hide glue and making chairs with the hide. I buy my glue in granular form from Bjorn Industries in Matthews NC. Great service and quality glue.