Tung oil finnishes

[lhmayberry]

I've never tried to use Tongue oil before, after reading the directions ,I am left wondering if I still need to top coat this or just apply the oil until I am satisfied with the finnish? the most I have ever done is polyurethane coating and wanted to try something different. This is for a plaque I put together for my step-son and wanted to get a good detail of the woods I used. I put some pics of it up but I'm not good at moving them around. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.​

Thanks, Les​

​

 

[DaveO]

Re: Tongue oil finnishes

Most of your commercial Tung Oil finishes are nothing more than a Oil, MS and Poly mix. Many don't even contain Tung Oil. Unless it states that it is pure Tung Oil, it's more likely a mix like mentioned above. You don't need to top coat this finish, but might want to to get better build or more gloss.
Dave

 

[Marlin]

Re: Tongue oil finnishes

^
Yep!

Unless it says it has Tung oil in it then it is probable just some poly and MS/Thinner.
I just make my own. I use about 60% poly and 40% thinner.

 

[lhmayberry]

Re: Tongue oil finnishes

Thanks Dave,I can see what you mean about the contents . Its mostly petroleum products.
I also see I can't spell tong either.

 

[sapwood]

Nice project Les! I've included your pix (hope it's the right one :roll so folks will see what you are up to

According to your description the frame is made of walnut.

HTH,
Roger

 

[Ray Martin]

Les,

I think an oil finish on the wood you used is going to look beautiful. I made a mantle clock out of walnut and cherry last year and used a danish oil. Waited about two weeks for the oil to dry and then applied wax. I think it came out ok. There is a photo in the gallery of the clock, but it doesn't really show the finish very well.

Ray

 

[poppop]

I use a mixture of 1/3 each tong oil, boiled linseed oil and poly for the first two coats then i increase to poly to get more protection and a faster build. works great. General has similar products but you have to buy both cans
good luck the picture looks great and tong oil - many coats will make it look great

 

[lhmayberry]

Thanks for the comments everyone. So far I've used 2 coats of the oil and let it set for 3 days and am now trying a second coat of satin poly the grain is really standing out really nice. Maybe Tomorrow I can try to get an updated pic. This has been a real experience to me.
Again thanks for the help and sugestions.

Les

 

[Howard Acheson]

There are two "true" oils used in finishing. One is linseed oil which comes from flax seeds. The second is tung oil Which comes from a nut tree that originally grew in China. Both are called drying oils although neither really fully dries and becomes hard. The primary use of both is in manufacturing oil based finishes.

A product that is a true tung oil will have a label that says either "pure" or "100%". If it doesn't say that on the label, IT ISN'T TRUE TUNG OIL. Forget about all the other baloney and look for one of those two words if you want to use a true tung oil. If the label contains any other chemicals, except a thinner, you are not getting a true tung oil. Real tung oil has acquired a cachet in the past twenty years that seems to elevate it to some type of magic potion. In fact, as a finish, it does not offer anything much different than linseed oil. In spite of the hype, is not significantly more water resistant than linseed oil--both are lousy--nor is it any more durable. Used alone both are fairly inferior "finishes". About the only difference is that tung oil is slightly less amber than linseed oil but it also is slightly less effective at "popping" the grain. By most measures, it is not significantly different from linseed oil.

"Tung Oil Finish" is a marketing expression for products that the manufacturer thinks will give you a finish like the finish you get from a true tung oil. These "Tung Oil Finishes" may or may not contain some true tung oil, but most do not contain any true tung oil. Their only claim to the use of the word "tung" is that it claims to give you the appearence of finish that results from true tung oil. You're buying a "faux tung oil finish".

There are two types of "tung oil finishes". One is mixture of varnish, boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits (called an oil/varnish). The exact mixtures are proprietary but 1/3, 1/3, and 1/3 will get you real close. Some manufacturers add a dollop of drier to speed up the drying. This same mixture is frequently also called "Danish Oil" because it gives a finish that resembles the finish used on much of the "danish style" teak furniture imported in the 50's and 60's. It closely mimics a true oil finish but the addition of the varnish resins gives it more durability and protection. These finishes do not need to be overcoated with a film finish. When you do so, you are destroying the look and feel of the finish.

Here are some oil/varnish mixtures*)
Deft Danish Oil
General Finishes' Sealacell
Behlen Danish Oil
Maloof Finish (contains pure tung oil and linseed oil)
Behr Scandinavian Tung Oil Finish
Minwax Tung Oil Finish
Minwax Antique Oil Finish
Velvit Oil
Watco Danish Oil
Liberon Finishing Oil ((contains pure tung oil and linseed oil)
McCloskey Tung Oil Finish (contains pure tung oil, no linseed oil)

The second "tung oil finish" is one made from varnish and mineral spirits. The approximate ratio is 1:1. This is really just a thinned varnish just like the stuff sold as "wiping varnish". When one two or three coats are applied, it also mimics the finish produced by a true oil but it is harder than the oil/varnish above because it does not have as much oil. It is slightly more protective than the oil/varnish type or tung oil finish. For all intents and purposes it is a varnish finish.

Here are some thinned varnishes*)
Minway Wiping Varnish
Watco Wiping Varnish
Formby's Tung Oil Finish
Zar Wipe-on Tung Oil
Val-Oil
Hope's Tung Oil Varnish
Gillespie Tung Oil
Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish
General Finishes' Arm R Seal
Jasco Tung Oil
(*) Courtesy Bob Flexner and some personal information.

One way to tell whether the product is an oil/varnish or a wiping varnish is to read the application instuctions. Oil/varnishes are applied, then given some time to set, then wiped dry. Wiping varnish products are wiped on an left to dry (no wiping off).

Finally, I'm not disparaging any of these products. In fact, they are a more protective and durable finish than any pure oil finish. They are what they are and can give you a very nice close-to-the-wood finish when properly applied and not overcoated with a film finish. My issue is the use of "tung oil" as only a marketing ploy rather than correctly labelling the product.

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Howard's post needs to go in the reference library! Some really good info there.

Just for info David Marks was using pure Tung oil on his DIY show pieces, but has now switched to a commercial product. At lot of folks like the General finishes Arm R Seal and Seal a Cell. Another bunch of folks like Tried and True. I believe Sam Maloof makes his own finish with the 1/3 TO, 1/3 BLO and 1/3 MS.

 

[DaveO]

Howard's post needs to go in the reference library! Some really good info there.

Howard is the reference library when it comes to finishing. He's not known as the "Finish Guru" for nothing. We are privileged to have his posts set us straight :-D :-D :-D

Dave

 

[McRabbet]

Howard's post needs to go in the reference library! Some really good info there.

Not only is this an excellent post, you are dead right that it needs to go into our Reference Library! It is done! I captured the post, converted it into a PDF file and it is the inaugural entry in the "Finishing" category of our Downloads Library for everyone to enjoy. I also added the full thread URL to the download file for those that may want to link back to this original thread.

'Jus doing my job! Enjoy! And thanks, Howard for a great post!

Rob

 

[sapwood]

:icon_thumThanks to Howard and Rob! I got about halfway through and thought, "I need to print this out". Saw the next post and thought "What quick-thinking and helpful folks we have here".

Many thanks,
Roger

 

[Redfish]

I have found the key to a good oil finish is, at least for me, to use Watco Danish oil and slather on two coats on one day (follow the instructions) and apply a third coat the next day with about 20% of polyurethane (the thick urethane, not minwax "fast dry" garbage). Let it cure for 72 hours.


Then wax it---- I rub the piece with 0000 steel wool and lube with wax, going with the grain, gently, evenly. When I think it's nice and evenly rubbed, I do it all over again just to make sure. I wipe off the wax (buff it with a cloth), and reapply the wax a couple more times a few hours in between, or whenever I get a whim to do it. So far so good, looks great.

 

[DavidF]

Howard's post needs to go in the reference library! Some really good info there.

Just for info David Marks was using pure Tung oil on his DIY show pieces, but has now switched to a commercial product. At lot of folks like the General finishes Arm R Seal and Seal a Cell. Another bunch of folks like Tried and True. I believe Sam Maloof makes his own finish with the 1/3 TO, 1/3 BLO and 1/3 MS.

A quote from DM's web site:

What is the mix ratio for the Linseed Oil, Tung Oil, and Urethane?
I have tried various methods of mixing linseed oil and tung oil in the past, but since the mid 80’s I’ve been using a product called Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal made by the General Finishes Company and available through mail order as well as from Woodcraft.

Since doing the first six seasons of Woodworks, this finish has been improved and no longer has the make-up stated in the show. I use two products starting with a sealer and finishing with a top coat. Company representatives state the sealer (which is clear but also available in different colored stains) is a blend of modified linseed oil, oil modified urethane, and alkyd resin, and dryers. The topcoat I use is called Arm-R-Seal and is now an oil modified urethane with dryers. The Arm-R-Seal is available in gloss, semi gloss, and satin.

A high quality finish starts with good surface preparation. This means thoroughly sanding the surface with 220 grit sandpaper or higher. I usually sand to 320 grit to bring out the clarity of the grain. Because of the time limitations of the show, we generally don’t demonstrate much sanding. After removing the dust (I use compressed air, if you don’t have compressed air, a vacuum cleaner and tack rags work well), I apply the first coat of sealer liberally to the surface allowing it to soak in for a few minutes and then use some soft rags and buff off all of the excess. This is important otherwise you will have resins that get sticky and leave an uneven surface. I let this coat dry overnight preferably at 70 degrees or warmer. A cold and damp environment can cause a finish to lack clarity and delay drying time.

The next day I thoroughly buff the entire surface (including the backs and bottoms of furniture which I finish to balance the piece and maintain equilibrium with 4 OT (0000) steel wool. This is the finest grade and I find that it really smoothes the surface. After removing the steel wool dust, I apply the first coat of Arm-R-Seal gloss. As a rule I always build the finish with coats of gloss whether it is oil, lacquer, urethane, etc. Then, if I want a semi gloss or satin sheen, I’ll use that for the last 1 or 2 coats. Keep in mind that the Arm-R-Seal dries faster so I usually just work smaller areas up to 12 square inches and overlap the finish. Again, I brush it on, let it soak in for a minute and rub the surface dry with a clear cloth. Let it dry and repeat the process.

I find that a total (including the sealer coat) of 4 or 5 coats usually creates a nice smooth finish that protects the wood while bringing out the beauty and depth of the grain patterns.

 

[McRabbet]

Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are my finishes of choice whenever I want a natural look to White Oak or other light-colored woods. I've never used the stain versions, but have used many quarts of the clear sealer and Satin Finish Arm-R-Seal. Great stuff that I get at The Woodworking Shop.

Rob