TS dovetail or pivot?

[tvrgeek]

Down to more hard choices. Of course, the PCS is a pivot. Double actually as one for height and one for retraction.
But in other 3 HP cabinet saws, we have front pivot, rear pivot, or dovetail sliding ways.

What are the advantages of the designs? Harvey claims more precision in their big 4 HP monster. Looks like both Griz (1023 and 0941) are dovetail, but most others are pivot.

One difference seems to be how rat the blade is from the front of the table. Rear pivot may push it a little farther forward reducing what is convenient for a large-ish crosscut sled.

 

[JimD]

I have never researched to this level. But I would be concerned about a dovetail joint becoming rusted or plugged with saw dust impeding smooth action. A pivot joint seems more resistant to this. Your argument about the rear pivot is logical and you can determine the amount if you know at least approximately the distance from the pivot point to the arbor. The arbor should be further towards the back while the blade is not raised to fully height. I would have to make a sketch to get things straight in my mind but it seems calculable. An idea of the magnitude might be useful in assessing the significance. My guess is you would not notice it.

 

[mpeele]

If you cut coves on your table saw vertical lift saws have an advantage because center of blade does not shift when raised or lowered like pivot saws.

 

[tvrgeek]

Ah, that would be true. Important to sneak up on them slowly. I tired it on a RAS once, and that was enough for me! I'll have to think about that.
The Griz is a dovetail, Harvey 300 is not.

 

[red]

I have the Grizzly G1023RLX and it is a great saw. If you're looking at that saw you will be very happy.

Red

 

[tvrgeek]

It is basically a toss up. It may come down to details on the fence. The Harvey is a newer aluminum extrusion, multi-position gob with knobs on the right side. Griz is conventional. I am used to jigs that ride the fence. I am sure I'll get to make all new ones. but it looks a little harder on the Harvey. Griz is a 32 inch, Harvey only 30. I have a 36 now. Dust port on the Harvey is on the right, but maybe can be moved ( Sawsall does wonders) Griz is on the rear. I have thought about a 50 and cut it down. Griz flat belt, C300 V belts. Griz on back order of course.

One little things that scares me is support. It was great on my C14. Griz is known to be hit or miss. Usually machines are fine and no issues anyway, but things happen. Tops not flat etc, slots binding. It happens. Several complaints about the wing being warped. Replaceable and also probably not too hard to hone down. No arbor lock pin. By now, they should. Dust ports too small, but that is true on most.

I guess I am leaning from the C300 to the G1023. Small differences. Probably the same factory. Not sure which models of Griz Harvey makes which month.

 

[tvrgeek]

The South Bend 1110 has all three DRO. Looks like a Griz G0651, but 36 inch. Darn, so many of these saws are so short from the blade to the front edge. only 9 or 10 inches. Laguna even less. My cheap contractor is much more. Top line with oversize tables aren't much better.

 

[tvrgeek]

OK, anal analysis of traditional 3 HP cabinet saws. Running from $1500 to $3200 as I would buy:

Harvey C300-30. Front pivot trunnion, 30 inch rip, v-belt, right side only fence
Griz G0123RL 32 inch 11 blade to front, poly belt, dovetail lift
Laguna F3 37 inch rip pivot lift, poly belt right side fence only, 8 5/8 blade to front.
Griz G0651 52 inch only, dovetail trunnion, 10 5/15blade to front, tilt DRO, polybelt
Baileigh 1040E30 2.5 HP, Front pivot trunnion, V-belt
South Bend 1110 36 inch rip, 10 5/16 blade to front, DRO tilt, fence and height, Looks like G0651.
Delta 36-L352 36 inch rip, 13 1/2 blade to front, 31 inch deep table, v-belt, front cranks.
Jet Xacta 30 inch rip 10 inch blade to front, 29 inch deep table Poly belt
Baileigh TS 1040P-30 30 inch rip, 12 1/4 blade to front, dovetail trunnion
Powermatic PM2000B 30 inch rip, 11 1/4 blade to front, DRO tilt, pivot trunnion, poly belt
SawStop PCS31230 -TG236 Pivot trunnion, 10 1/4 blade to front 36 inch rip,

All are good saws ( in a couple cases, IF you get a good one) All are not perfect IMHO. But as you nit-pick, every one a slight price increase. Every one an excuse to move up that $100 or $200.

Assume dust collection stinks. Only a couple have guard dust ports. All dust ports too small. All between $250 and $300 shipping, but you can pick up a PCS at a dealer. Lowes will deliver free a Delta. ( but will they keep picking them up until you get a good one?)

Non-27 inch depth is not a stopper, but a additional fabrication task as I have an iron 27 inch router table. Where the dust port comes out differs and can be extra bends. Heights slightly differ so re-do outfeeds etc. All can be fitted with DRO for the fence, casters, different fences, wider wings and such. Almost all will take come fab for a better top guard dust collection.

ShopFox dropped their 3 HP cabinet. Griz dropped at least two.

 

[tvrgeek]

So Grizzly bought the old South Bend Lathe brand name. The above saw would be the 0651 but with three DROs. Gee, would it be great if Griz built their same tools, but with tighter tolerances, top notch bearings, a little better QC?