Topcoat over Seal-a-cell

[cpowell]

I applied a coat of seal-a-cell over my purpleheart/padauk box three days ago. There are a few places where the finish is not completely dry (on the padauk only). I'm willing to wait another day but I am not sure about topcoat for this.

I don't have any arm-r-seal product. I would like to spray lacquer. Can this be done? I have some brush on shellac if I need to seal the first coat. BTW, the seal-a-cell darkened the padauk and purpleheart considerably. :-( I guess I should have sprayed lacquer from the start.

I don't have a sprayer. Have been using Deft aerosol. It works okay for a jewelry box but is a little bit expensive. I guess I need to look into a sprayer.

So, can I spray lacquer atop the seal-a-cell?

Chuck

 

[DaveO]

I applied a coat of seal-a-cell over my purpleheart/padauk box three days ago.

So, can I spray lacquer atop the seal-a-cell?

Chuck

I don't see why not, as long as the Seal-a-Cell is cured. If I understand correctly Seal-a-Cell is a oil/varnish blend heavy on the oil, and Arm-r-Seal is a wiping urethane.
Dave

 

[cpowell]

I don't see why not, as long as the Seal-a-Cell is cured. If I understand correctly Seal-a-Cell is a oil/varnish blend heavy on the oil, and Arm-r-Seal is a wiping urethane.
Dave

Dave, wow, you're quick!

Do I need to apply shellac first before the lacquer? I sprayed lacquer over danish oil with no problems...is seal-a-cell different?

Am I in limbo until the 2 small areas of padauk dry out? I'm guessing I should have done something to the raw wood prior to applying the seal-a-cell varnish, huh? I have since read that it doesn't hurt to wipe down the padauk with lacquer thinner/acetone before applying the varnish. :eusa_doh:

Chuck

 

[DaveO]

I wouldn't worry about using the shellac. You might need a day or two more curing time if there are some tacky spots. Seal-a-Cell is similar to Danish Oil but much higher quality. It never hurts to wipe down exotic woods with thinner, but I have never done it with the Padauk I've used and not had any problems. You may have just had a spot or two of a heavier application.
HTH, Dave

 

[jmauldin]

If the spots or area are still not dry, wipe them down with plain gasoline! No, I'm not crazy or been sniffing lacquer fumes. I don't know how or why it works but it does. I have used that technique for years of spraying lacq. that every once in a while would not "dry".
As to sprying lacq. over seal-a-coat, if seal-a-coat is an oil/varnish mixture (I'm not familiar with the product) I would be very hesitant to spray lacq. over it. You can spray varnish over lacq. but not the other way around. The lacq. is to "hot" and will dissolve the varnish.
If your final color is too dark, the only remedy is to strip it and wash with oxaclic acid.
Good luck,
Jim in Mayberry

 

[cpowell]

Thanks for the sound advice

Oh, to be more patient! If there is a place to buy patience oil, I need to go there. I wonder if it would be sold by the quart or bd ft? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll finish the inner tray and set the box and tray in the house so I can make sawdust. I would really love to have a finishing room off the shop so I could let things dry and still make sawdust.

Well, I guess I do...recently it's been the least used counter in the kitchen. LOML has started giving me stern looks when I carry in the sheet of ply with a freshly finished project on it.

 

[Travis Porter]

Break down and buy an HVLP conversion gun if you have a compressor and some Target coatings USL water based lacquer. You can spray and in no time flat go back to making saw dust. I will never go back to the disposable spray cans or try to spray anything else. If you want, you can use mine to get a feel for it, but be warned. Once you do you will never go back.

Until I did some HVLP I thought I wanted a finishing room. Now, I see no need.

 

[Howard Acheson]

If the spots or area are still not dry, wipe them down with plain gasoline! No, I'm not crazy or been sniffing lacquer fumes. I don't know how or why it works but it does. I have used that technique for years of spraying lacq. that every once in a while would not "dry".
As to sprying lacq. over seal-a-coat, if seal-a-coat is an oil/varnish mixture (I'm not familiar with the product) I would be very hesitant to spray lacq. over it. You can spray varnish over lacq. but not the other way around. The lacq. is to "hot" and will dissolve the varnish.
If your final color is too dark, the only remedy is to strip it and wash with oxaclic acid.
Good luck,
Jim in Mayberry

I don't know about the gasoline but I'm glad you picked up on the incompatability of lacquer over an oil based finish. If the oil based finish is completely cured--six months or more--you can get away with it. But, the solvents in lacquer thinner will attack fresh oil based. This is particularly true if the oil based is having a hard time becoming tack free.

Paduak is an oily wood and putting an oil based finish on it is not the best plan. The oil in the wood interferes with the drying and later curing of an oil based finish. Both paduak and purpleheart work best if sprayed with lacquer.

Coming back the gasoline. Wiping a tacky surface with any petroleum based thinner will tend to remove the un-dried finish. Mineral spirits and naphtha will work just fine if applied with 3/0 steel wool or a green or gray scotchbrite pad.

 

[NCPete]

Thanks for the sound advice

Oh, to be more patient! If there is a place to buy patience oil, I need to go there. I wonder if it would be sold by the quart or bd ft? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I buy my patience in sleeves of golf balls and greens fees. Or maybe that is sanity? never really sure, but it aint cheep!

 

[cpowell]

Re: Topcoat over Seal-a-cell...Update

I actually applied the Seal-A-Cell Sunday and it is still not completely dry.

I modified the top of the box to make it thinner and it looks proportionally better now.

Here's my finishing plan. I'm going on a fishing trip tomorrow returning Sunday. Assuming I have dry Padauk, I will apply dewaxed super blond shellac for a sealer then topcoat with a few coats of Deft aerosol lacquer. If the Padauk is still tacky, I'll remake the top frame using the Padauk panel left over from when I resawed the first panel and lacquer everything.

Travis, I'd love to take you up on trying (training?) on the HVLP sprayer with water based lacquer. I like the drying speed of lacquer but hate the smell of aerosol Deft (I use a respirator and ventilate well but the smell lingers in the shop for a while). I can't afford a finishing room addition...rather spend on tools!!

I would like to buy a finishing book...is there a recognized finishing bible that yall could recommend? Just like me to ask for directions AFTER I'm lost! :lol: :lol:

Chuck

 

[DaveO]

Re: Topcoat over Seal-a-cell...Update

I would like to buy a finishing book...is there a recognized finishing bible that yall could recommend? Just like me to ask for directions AFTER I'm lost! :lol: :lol:

Chuck

Understanding Wood Finishing by Bob Flexner is a great book that explains a lot
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0875967345/102-3404282-8231334?v=glance&n=283155

But there are so many more that are worth reading...it's a very complex subject.
I found Flexner's book at the local library:-D

Dave

 

[Travis Porter]

Re: Topcoat over Seal-a-cell...Update

Either way works for me. You can borrow it, or come out and try it, or I can come to you if you have an air compresosr. I am still a newbie, so we can learn together.

As for a book, I have heard good things about Bob Flexner's book, but I don't have it. I have Jeff Jewitt's FWW Finishing book. I would give it a 7 or 8 on a scale of 1 to 10.

 

[dancam]

Hey Travis,

Saw your post on HVLP conversion sprayers and had some questions. What size compressor is needed and are the conversion guns very expensive. I'm like a lot of guys, don't like spraying laquer w/o a proper spray booth/room and I don't have room for a seprate spary/finish room.

Any adivice will be appreciated.

dancam

 

[Travis Porter]

I paid $90 for my HVLP conversion gun. It is a Porter Cable. I believe Jeff has a Harbor Freight that he got pretty cheap and gets good results from. Personally, I only spray water based stuff. Water based lacquer, sealer, etc. I have a fairly large compressor, but I don't think it needs to be very big. I would think you could run it on a pancake compressor as the pressure at the gun is 30 to 40 lbs.

 

[NCPete]

a pancake compressor should work, however the motor is likely to cycle on pretty often on any larger projects. You certainly wouldn't want to paint a car using a pancake/contractor size compressor. unless maybe you have one of those new PC high pressure machines? 190psi or more?