Me too. I started with DesignCAD in '92 when it was made by American Small Business in Norman OK. I never could get the hang of TurboCAD, Ethan. Changing working planes was tough for me to grasp after having used DesignCAD for so long. But, IMSI puts TurboCAD on the front burner, and I think DesignCAD is an extracurricular activity for them.