It wasn't all my fault! Dovetail saw tuneup

[DavidF]

Well, the Crown 10" Dovetail saw arrived and initially everything was good, but practise and the real thing are two different animals. Over this weekend I have cut about 50 dovetails and to be perfectly honest, although they were getting better I was not happy with any of them. When I looked at the saw cuts, mainly in the pins, every one of them had a right drift from top to bottom, some, I think dependent on which saw stroke I finished on had a pronounced "J" shape (but mirrored to the right). With one set to go I decided to try and improve the cuts with more practise, but whatever I did I got this problem. Never to the left so consistent. I thought I would make a saw guide that guided the saw at 8 deg and straight vertical and try as I might the saw would not track down the line. It was literally pulling itself to the right. However much I tried to steer the cut I could not stop it. I could hold the saw at any angle and still the right drift. In desperation I took some of the aggressiveness off of the right hand set with a few light rubs with a diamond bench stone and Low! an improvement! well nothing venture nothing gained and another few strokes and the track gradually became straight. I also noticed the the cut was not as smooth as it should be; now bear in mind this is being done looking through my new best friend - A jewellers type head mounted magnifier! A single rub over on the left side and tried again. Now of course the saw feels tighter in the cut because of the mods, but it tracks perfectly straight. I can split the line every time. I will still use the cutting guide for the last set, but at least I know that the result will be good. So I may not have a perfect technique yet, but I was being made to look worse by the saw. So now it's all down to me!!!!

 

[ptt49er]

:eusa_clap For finally getting the saw in! I cannot offer any advice on the DT as I haven't ventured into that realm yet, but they say practice makes perfect.

Good Luck...but I have one question..

[MOUSE]Where are the pictures?[/MOUSE]

 

[DavidF]

:eusa_clap For finally getting the saw in! I cannot offer any advice on the DT as I haven't ventured into that realm yet, but they say practice makes perfect.

Good Luck...but I have one question..

[mouse]Where are the pictures?[/mouse]

Soon, I couldn't get far enough away for them to look good enough for you guys.......

 

[Jonz]

Glad you got it sorted David. What you figured out on your own is how it is normally done, a few passes with a stone over the side that pulls.

Once you start the cut on the angle you want, the saw should for the most part maintain that path on its own. If it is set correctly it is just as hard to saw a crooked line as it is to straighten a crooked one with a bad set as you saw before.

It's great you persisted and found a way to make it work. So many times frustration with problems like this are why hand tools are thrown in a drawer never to be used again.

 

[ptt49er]

I am pretty certain your first attempts will look better than my first attempts at cutting mortise and tenon joints :-D

 

[PeteM]

Rob Cosman has a DVD on DT Saws. He claims the only saw that is ready to cut right out of the box is the LN (I believe he is a rep for them). He goes into a lot of detail on tuning the saw as well as sawing technique. I rented the DVD from Woodcraft for $3. Well worth it!

pete

 

[DavidF]

It's great you persisted and found a way to make it work. So many times frustration with problems like this are why hand tools are thrown in a drawer never to be used again.

Or buy a DT jig - I was tempted believe me!:BangHead:

So you ask, will I go back and remake all the joints? - NOooooooooo! Just keep the drawers closed?? Seriously, they are not too bad after some very minor fettling, but not as good as they should be.

BTW, I don't count cutting on the wrong side of the line the saws fault.......:eusa_doh:

 

[Jonz]

No matter how many I cut I mark the waste out very boldly, because as sure as I'm sitting here I'll cut the wrong side of a line if I don't. I just finished a project with 9 very small drawers, half blinds in the front and through dt's on the backs, and even after that many in a row I have to watch myself.

Probably doesn't help that I tend to listen to talk radio in the shop and lose concentration but I'd go nuts with just the voices in my head to listen to. :lol:

I agree on the Rob Cosman vids. "Mastering the Dovetail Saw" I have not seen, but his "Hand Cut Dovetails" is excellent. He is very methodical and precise but he shows very good technique that is a great starting point to eventually modify to your own methods. There are a few annoyances like the sidekick guy asking what I'd consider less than useful questions but I guess they figured a little chatting would liven up the vid a bit.

 

[DavidF]

No matter how many I cut I mark the waste out very boldly, because as sure as I'm sitting here I'll cut the wrong side of a line if I don't. I just finished a project with 9 very small drawers, half blinds in the front and through dt's on the backs, and even after that many in a row I have to watch myself.

Yep, did that, still screwed up once. Don't you hate that???? That was after having to make an emergency, blue light flashing run up to "The hardware store of NC" to get more curly maple after I cut the fronts the same widths as the backs - Not on rebated fronts their not:BangHead:

 

[froglips]

Sounds like a fun adventure in the land of the dovetail saw!

With few exectptions, most dovetail saws come setup incorrectly. LN is one of the rare exceptions.

They come with crosscut teeth, not rip, which is what dovetails are. If your teeth look like the egyptian pyramids and not a skate punks ramp, you gots the wrong teeth.

The pulling off line is usually caused by uneven set. The teeth on the right hand side of your saw probably were further set than the left side. Or, the teeth need jointed so they are all the same height.

Dovetail saws need almost no set. You can flatten the teeth in a vice, but a nicer way is to hit two blocks of end grain hard wood such, as rock maple to flatten the teeth.

Then run a stone or file across the top of the teeth to bring them to some sort of the same height. If you see flat spots on most teeth, thats good enough.

Then, a small trianglular file across the teeth at 90 degrees to change the shape to the skate punk ramp. You want to make sure the flat tops from jointing are filed off.

Then go back with a tiny screw driver and twist every other tooth just a fraction of a turn.

Last step, a light pass with your stone on the sides to remove any burrs.

Bob's your uncle.

If you decide to really go nuts (and I am living proof of what happens), Tom Law has a DVD on Hand Saw Sharpening, top notch stuff.

Oh, where are the pics?

Jim

 

[DavidF]

The saw has rip profile teeth, but I think the set was too great and as you say, uneven. I guess you get what you pay for and this was only $23, the LN was out of my price range, but it added to the learning experience that's for sure. At least the back left side of one lower drawer will be better dovetailed......

 

[Jonz]

Yep, did that, still screwed up once. Don't you hate that???? That was after having to make an emergency, blue light flashing run up to "The hardware store of NC" to get more curly maple after I cut the fronts the same widths as the backs - Not on rebated fronts their not:BangHead:

Don't feel bad, one of the drawers I just did, I finished it, got it all planed and cleaned up with the dt's all smooth and nice. Then when I stuck it in the cabinet to check final fit, it hit the back of the cabinet and was still sticking about 1.5" out the front. 8-O :lol:

 

[Gotcha6]

Chris, it sounds like you just made the cabinet too short!
Where's that board stretcher they sent me after in 7th grade shop class? :lol:
Seriously, is anybody using a Japanese pull saw for dovetails? I have one but I've never tried it on a dovetail. It seems to cut a fine line OK.

 

[DavidF]

Don't feel bad, one of the drawers I just did, I finished it, got it all planed and cleaned up with the dt's all smooth and nice. Then when I stuck it in the cabinet to check final fit, it hit the back of the cabinet and was still sticking about 1.5" out the front. 8-O :lol:

So I guess you just said "Oops, never mind"? What a bummer

 

[Jonz]

I have a Japanese saw and have cut dovetails with it. Mine is a pretty cheap one so I guess it's hard to make a comparison with a really good one. I like the thin kerf and cutting on the pull stroke makes logical sense, I would need a lot more practice to really be competent with it though. I also tend not to like "broomstick" handled saws as well, even western styles and have a lot more experience with regular or open handled backsaws.

David, it was back to the drawing board on that drawer unfortunately. :lol:

 

[DavidF]

Don't you always have that initial thought of a quick fix before the quality hat kicks in:lol: When I cut the fronts too small the instant thought was can I add a 1/4" lipping....then a second later I went and bought more wood. The old fronts are destined to be glued togther and a pltter turned on the lathe, so no waste...

 

[Travis Porter]

The fact that you recognized it and could tune it up says a lot. If it had been me, the saw would get put in a drawer for the next 5 years.

 

[mkepke]

Seriously, is anybody using a Japanese pull saw for dovetails? I have one but I've never tried it on a dovetail. It seems to cut a fine line OK.

I use a dozuki for dovetails. Works great, but you need a tender touch as the blade is so thin they are easy to damage.

One of my firsts posts to this board was a mea culpa after I bent the blade of a dozuki.

-Mark

 

[Jonz]

Don't you always have that initial thought of a quick fix before the quality hat kicks in:lol: When I cut the fronts too small the instant thought was can I add a 1/4" lipping....then a second later I went and bought more wood. The old fronts are destined to be glued togther and a pltter turned on the lathe, so no waste...

Oh, I took the drawer apart to see if I could salvage it.

A little too much damage taking it apart to be able to sleep well if I didn't start over but I gave it a shot.

 

[DavidF]

The fact that you recognized it and could tune it up says a lot. If it had been me, the saw would get put in a drawer for the next 5 years.

I hate to question my own ability, so it had to be something else:lol::lol: I try and hide my humble side:lol: