Belt rabbit hole

[tvrgeek]

Has anyone gone down the rabbit hole of converting their table saw triple V belts to a multirib? New sheaves, belt.
They run smoother, take less power, and don't "set". Of course, one belt won't have the quality problem of slightly different diameters like the total crap Chinese belts that come on our machines and usually an odd size so you can't fit a Gates X.

 

[bob vaughan]

Decades back, we went in the opposite direction. The Delta 12/14 table saw came with that kind of belt. After two belts in three years, that mess got changed. Delta gave up that design detail in a few years and went back to the standard V-belts.
The Sawstop has that kind of belt or at least the ones I've worked with did.
A lot of wood lathes have that kind of belt, but the belt drive is enclosed and away from the sawdust.
Keep us informed on your process on changing things. Not everybody has the mechanical understanding to successfully execute that plan.

 

[JNCarr]

Hmmm... My assessment, for what it's worth, is a smoother cut can be had by a higher tooth count not by a different belt. The cost and effort of changing belt types will be repaid over MANY years of energy savings especially if you are seeing "set" in your belts - this means the saw is not run much. Reduce set by turning it on for a second or two every few days and it will statistically stop in a different location. For me, I'd rather be building a project than rebuilding a tool. Maybe Im missing something - please enlighten me!

 

[bob vaughan]

Twenty years ago I fitted a grooved belt to an old wood lathe (along with a DC motor). I used an automotive belt rather than the gates multi groove belts because the automotive belt was easier to get; The ribs were slightly larger but doing the math and cutting the grooves was easy enough. It did make a big difference with smoothness on the lathe that previously used the old 4L type belt. My son now uses this lathe quite often.

 

[tvrgeek]

Hmmm... My assessment, for what it's worth, is a smoother cut can be had by a higher tooth count not by a different belt. The cost and effort of changing belt types will be repaid over MANY years of energy savings especially if you are seeing "set" in your belts - this means the saw is not run much. Reduce set by turning it on for a second or two every few days and it will statistically stop in a different location. For me, I'd rather be building a project than rebuilding a tool. Maybe Im missing something - please enlighten me!

Joe, not having a problem with smooth cut. My Harvey does just fine, but the multigrove belts have many advantages as I have mentioned. Virtually ALL machines designed in the last 20 years use them ( Saw Stop actually needs two for the retraction) ALL cars in the last 20 years use them. Smoother, smaller minimum radius, No issue with matching, no "set" so the blade won't move a little when you are making a precise setup, and less loss. I use my TS maybe every other week at most so it always has a set.

The OEM belts were so bad, only one of them had correct tension, a second close and the third flopping in the breeze. I put on D&D power belts so at least all three drive the spindle. As far as having trouble with multigroove, it is better to use a spring tensioner/idler and as far as power transmission, just follow the guidelines that Gates, Goodyear, and Continental have. Do the math. I can believe Delta had problems as it is clear they don't read the specs if you look at the drill press smallest sheave. I bet they tried to use too small on the spindle to get maximum blade height. Common on most woodworking tools. Stupid if you ask me. a 3 HP saw will need a pretty wide belt with good wrap degrees. Otherwise a heavy dado would eat it up.

I like my tools to work well. I was hoping someone had gone down this path with sources of sheaves and belts. ( Harvey is basically a better made Griz 690) I don't have a lathe to make the sheaves. Where the vibration is really a problem is my old Delta drill press. The solution is of course a Nova, but can't justify it.

 

[bob vaughan]

I was hoping someone had gone down this path with sources of sheaves and belts.

I think everyone was looking to you to do the work and find the solution.

 

[Rwe2156]

Has anyone gone down the rabbit hole of converting their table saw triple V belts to a multirib? New sheaves, belt.They run smoother, take less power, and don't "set". Of course, one belt won't have the quality problem of slightly different diameters like the total crap Chinese belts that come on our machines and usually an odd size so you can't fit a Gates X.

I've never heard of this in 35 years of ww'ing. But that doesn't mean anything.

I guess I've never heard of or experienced "set", and at one time my table saw sat unused for weeks at time. A 2000 Jet cabinet saw with old style belts. The saw always ran smooth as silk. I never gave any thought to belts.

Guess I don't see the point. If the saw is running fine, IMO leave it alone!

 

[Gofor]

My Ridgid came with the multi-rib. It is very nice. Don't know if Ridgid parts would fit your saw.

 

[bob vaughan]

Maybe better belts would help things. The Gates AX series will make a difference because they are cogged and wrap around a small pulley more efficiently. The AX series are pretty strong belts. The below shot is of an old Unisaw I was fixing up with a new 3 HP single phase motor. I used three belts (AX24) because of convention. The truth is that the AX belts are such that one belt would have worked fine.

That 35± degree pulley groove causes the belt to dig down and grip with moderate tension. As the machine runs, there will be one taut side and one slightly slack side. That's the way it has been for decades.

 

[chris_goris]

like the powermatic PM2000? buy quality, get quality.

 

[tvrgeek]

No doubt in my mind, Gates AX are the best. I run one on my jointer. ( had to shim the motor for a standard belt) BUT, they don't come in the odd sizes my TS or DP need. D&D power has full V belts of the odd Chinese preferred sizes and they are round with good splices. A tad stiff.

AX actually have the same minimum diameter sheave as regular, but yes, they do work better. The OEM belts on my DP had terrible splices and thump-thump. Same on the jointer. On the TS, their dimeter was so different, you could measure it with a tape measure. One was so slack, it did nothing. Saw worked fine, so seems two belts would have been enough. Back in my industry days, we had Gates make special small diameter amirid fiber V belts. Expensive, but worked great. I can't ever remember one where one of the set ( 3 on a sheave) had visible vibration different from the others.

I do not know how consistent link-belts are in diameter which is why I did not try them in the TS. I was not impressed in the DP, but I still have the OEM front and center sheave sets that are not very round. I replaced the rear one with a good one and that did help a bit. Great Delta quality, it was drilled at an angle! As usual, belt spacing on Chinese sheaves is not quite the same as Western. You can get away with 3 steps, but a 5 step sheave gets alignment far enough off to cause vibration.

Yea, my old Ridgid contractor saw had a ribbed belt. Used the motor weight and a supplemental spring for tension. Belt failed as the motor mounting bracket was not in perfect tilt alignment. Fixed. New belt lasted years.

When I bought the Harvey, I considered the Powermatic and the SawStop. Even the PM is not what they used to be. I was so impressed with my Harvey band saw, I went with the table saw. Basically a Grizily 690 ( they are one of the big OEMs. Make a lot of Griz, had have made PM and SS in the past. ) but a little better fit and finish . I see they have completely revamped their line with all the lessons learned from being an OEM.

 

[bob vaughan]

like the powermatic PM2000? buy quality, get quality.

Nice photo. Thanks for that.