Okay, take your best shot

[toolman]

:icon_thum:icon_thum:icon_thum:icon_thum:icon_thum:icon_thum

OK, deep breath...

First, in all future issues like this, if you have a doubt put the thread in moderation immediately. That does not mean delete it. That means take it out of the public eye so that the best course of action can be determined.

Second, our policies only cover public posts. This means that if you have an issue with another member you can PM that person.

Third, I feel that the present situation with Alan warrants a PM from me. What follows is the first draft. Please feel free to comment.

Alan:

I am sending this message in view of your recent disruptive posts, some of which relate to dust collection. While I do not agree with Glenn’s making his post in a public forum, you should understand that the majority of the staff and many members have complained about the disruptive nature of your posts and also your posts on this topic. The original poster in at least one thread has asked to have the thread closed on account of the fact that their thread was deliberately taken off-subject.

As I know you are well-aware, dust collection can be a hot-button topic. Feelings run strong. I know that Steve felt the need to speak to you about similar issues in the past. NCWoodworker tries to maintain a friendly atmosphere. While I know you have put a lot of time and energy into dust collection design and solutions, presenting your ideas so frequently and forcefully has raised resentment and caused people to question your motives. Glenn’s post was just one manifestation of this.

Your post in CardinalCyn’s “who we are thread” included an uncalled for dig back at him. These sorts of posts have to stop. Glenn has been spoken too about this. I have no intention of asking for his resignation as a moderator. I know that he was trying to act in what he considered to be the best interests of the membership. It was how he chose to express himself that was wrong.

Glenn made a good suggestion in his post, namely if you have a configuration and/or improvements, to present them in their own thread, instead of in threads where they are not directly related to the topic. As an example, junquecol’s thread was simply showing his build of a chip separator. He did not say that it cleared small particles.

In conclusion please understand that if you continue to make posts as previously described, the BoD may have to take actions to restrict your membership rights. This is something we are loathe to do to anyone.

Douglas Robinson
President
NCWoodworker

 

[Canuck]

Well written, Doug!:icon_thum:icon_thum:icon_thum

A huge thank you from me!!!!!!!!!!

Wayne

 

[TracyP]

Tracy you are too fast. I already made changes. I emphasized the "disruptive" nature of his posts so that it will not be taken as our objection to any showing "expertise". Rather it is anyone being disruptive. This has precedent with Eagle and others in the past.

Ok, I still like it.

 

[TracyP]

I though me was not going to hard delete posts or threads? :dontknow: When hard deleted they are gone! If we soft delete we can all see and maybe learn something.. Soft deleted posts and threads can not be seen by member only staff can click view to view the post or thread to view.:eusa_booh Let me get back to work.. :rolf:

All options were not set the same for all of the staff, especially newer members. A step I obviously missed in setup. That is now corrected.:embaresse:embaresse. Soft delete takes it out of view, hard delete takes it completely from the database. We'll discuss this in a future thread.

 

[Travis Porter]

I changed the first few sentences

I am sending this message in view of your recent posts which relate to dust collection and are perceived to be by many as argumentative. While I do not agree with Glenn’s making his post in a public forum, you should understand that the majority of the staff and many members have complained about the disruptive nature of your posts and also your posts on this topic. The original poster in at least one thread has asked to have the thread closed on account of the fact that their thread was deliberately taken off-subject.

 

[Douglas Robinson]

I understand your proposed change Travis, but my original emphasized the disruptive nature of the posts over the fact that they relate to dust collection. I think that is more important.

 

[Tar Heel]

Well said Doug. Stand by for the fireworks.

 

[Gotcha6]

PM to Alan looks ok to me with grammatical corrections as noted by Ray.
:thumbs_up

I have followed a lot of the advice given by Alan to potential DC builders & have noted inconsistencies in his counsel. Would it be prudent on future posts on this issue to point out these inconsistencies in a thread, or PM? I'd think it would take a little wind out of his sails either way.
The main example that comes to mind has to do with heat loss from outside discharge. He's contradicted himself on this in separate posts. Also, while he views good DC as critical to one's health, I can't imagine the welfare of the members here has any precedent over his patent application being compromised.

 

[Bas]

I have followed a lot of the advice given by Alan to potential DC builders & have noted inconsistencies in his counsel. Would it be prudent on future posts on this issue to point out these inconsistencies in a thread, or PM? I'd think it would take a little wind out of his sails either way.

I advice against it. While it would be very satisfying to "put him in his place", it often degenerates into road rage. Tailgating to encourage somebody to move into the other lane rarely works if the person is oblivious to the rules of the road. Likewise, deliberately slowing down to teach the tailgater a lesson is an exercise in futility. Just get out of the way, let the impatient one pass, and count to ten.

Then press the grenade launcher button and blow the car up. (OK, I made that up, but it helps to pretend your car has such a button).

Remember, everyone is entitled to be right, wrong, inconsistent, thoughtful, objective or biased in his or her opinions. Just don't be a @*%## about it.

 

[NCPete]

Then press the grenade launcher button and blow the car up. (OK, I made that up, but it helps to pretend your car has such a button).

many years ago, a friend of mine had installed a pair of bottle rocket launchers in the grill of his early 70's Buick Electra 225. He activated the system with a switch in the door, then hit the horn to fire them. There were issues in the initial install, as the igniters took some time to charge to light the rocket fuses, but he later managed to confuse and anger some scary-looking biker gang types.

 

[Gotcha6]

Good thing this is in the M&A forum. We ain't s'poze t' be promotin' no illegal activity. :gar-Bi

 

[scsmith42]

Just when I feel that I may be too disgusted to even respond to those decent enough to respond to me, I read Travis' post. It was a much needed reminder of the spirit this site was developed. Thanks Travis. It's good to know someone is still here with a cool head and without a personal agenda.


Unfortunate is a good word to describe Glenn's rant. What's even more unfortunate is the way it was handled by our leadership.

We moderators may be at the bottom of the food chain on this staff but there are some things we shouldn't be expected to perform. When Pete wrote me to ask my advice and help regarding the content and tone of Glenn's post I immediately responded that Doug or Tracy needed to be notified. I thought this because I felt that this was far more serious than just slapping the hand of the poster especially a fellow moderator. If this situation had been minor as most of our issues are, I would have had no problem dealing with Glenn or anyone else. But, in the 4 years I've been a member I've never read anything that inflamed. ( Even from Eagle,r.i.p.)
In my opinion this was no job for a peer. Was I that wrong?

I'm not sure what's going on here these days. Too much time being cooped up? Too little other avenues to vent frustrations? Not enough sawdust to collect?

Yep, we all make mistakes. What's important is that we learn from them. I have no doubt Glenn has and I'd like to think I have.


Barbara

With respect to the moderators feeling uncomfortable placing a thread in moderation that was authored by either a fellow moderator or a BOD member, I'd like to share a few thoughts.

First, we're all human, and as such it will be expected that at times our emotions may overwhelm our reason. That's just life. We all wear multiple hats - one is our official responsiblity to North Carolina Woodworker and the other is our basic membership hat. Thus, not all posts that a MOD or BOD member makes on North Carolina Woodworker can be construed as being "official"; some of them are just posts made as members and we're just as prone to being a victim of emotion as the next person.

In the event that a Mod or BOD member makes a post that is outside of policy, or for lack of better words in poor taste, it would be my guidance for the Mods to feel empowered to move the thread in question into moderation so that it can be discussed and addressed. In fact, let me say that I would ENCOURAGE them to do so.

We all make mistakes, and just about all of us have been moderated. Quite frankly, I would rather be moderated and then have my comments restored after discussion, then not be moderated and have something that I said that was in poor taste left up. The latter would be both a poor reflection upon myself as well as North Carolina Woodworker, and also serve to create a perception that Mods and/or BOD members are treated differently than our base membership - which would send the wrong message.

Doug, as to your suggested response to Alan, the only thing that I would suggest is to extend him a very small olive branch at the end. Yes, he can be a PITA and yes his ego appears to enter the room about 20' before his body. However, he has also made some valuable contributions to North Carolina Woodworker and it is both fair and reasonable to acknowledge them. Where I'm headed is that we want to encourage any member to stay and participate as long as they can do so within the spirit and guidelines of our site, yet let them know in a cordial way when they have crossed the line (and then boot them out if they can't behave).

The olive branch that I would offer is to change your closing to read:

"This is something we are loathe to do to anyone, especially someone such as yourself who has shared many valuable contributions with North Carolina Woodworker members."

 

[Douglas Robinson]

Scott your suggestion is a good one.

 

[McRabbet]

I've been away most of the day, but agree with the PM and echo my support for Scott Smith's latest addition. A little honey never hurts.

 

[Travis Porter]

+1:icon_thum

With respect to the moderators feeling uncomfortable placing a thread in moderation that was authored by either a fellow moderator or a BOD member, I'd like to share a few thoughts.

First, we're all human, and as such it will be expected that at times our emotions may overwhelm our reason. That's just life. We all wear multiple hats - one is our official responsiblity to North Carolina Woodworker and the other is our basic membership hat. Thus, not all posts that a MOD or BOD member makes on North Carolina Woodworker can be construed as being "official"; some of them are just posts made as members and we're just as prone to being a victim of emotion as the next person.

In the event that a Mod or BOD member makes a post that is outside of policy, or for lack of better words in poor taste, it would be my guidance for the Mods to feel empowered to move the thread in question into moderation so that it can be discussed and addressed. In fact, let me say that I would ENCOURAGE them to do so.

We all make mistakes, and just about all of us have been moderated. Quite frankly, I would rather be moderated and then have my comments restored after discussion, then not be moderated and have something that I said that was in poor taste left up. The latter would be both a poor reflection upon myself as well as North Carolina Woodworker, and also serve to create a perception that Mods and/or BOD members are treated differently than our base membership - which would send the wrong message.

Doug, as to your suggested response to Alan, the only thing that I would suggest is to extend him a very small olive branch at the end. Yes, he can be a PITA and yes his ego appears to enter the room about 20' before his body. However, he has also made some valuable contributions to North Carolina Woodworker and it is both fair and reasonable to acknowledge them. Where I'm headed is that we want to encourage any member to stay and participate as long as they can do so within the spirit and guidelines of our site, yet let them know in a cordial way when they have crossed the line (and then boot them out if they can't behave).

The olive branch that I would offer is to change your closing to read:

"This is something we are loathe to do to anyone, especially someone such as yourself who has shared many valuable contributions with North Carolina Woodworker members."

 

[Glennbear]

I believe based upon personal experience any attempt to correct Alan 's perception of things would be an exercise in futility and take us down a path we wish to avoid. :wsmile: