Okay, take your best shot

[b4man]

:qright5:

I have never had to delete a post or even place a thread in Moderation until today. In the General Woodworking Forum under the Least favorite job thread Glenn responded to Alan's post in a harsh tone that I knew if it had been said by any other member would have resulted in moderation. Because it's a fellow Mod made this very difficult for me.

I'm sorry that I don't know how to paste the comment here now and don't know if they still exsist as I deleted Glenn's and BigDog (Geoff's) post. I'm sure I need more training in this area.
Geoff's post was deleted because he included Glenn's remarks in agreement.

I PM'd both Glenn and Geoff with an explanation of my actions.


Barbara

 

[Glennbear]

I am sorry the tone of my post necessitated moderation.:embaresse

 

[NCPete]

Barbara, i am sorry I had to ask you to do it, I was running out of the house as I read that, but I always carry my 'berry with me... until we get the mobile stuff worked out, moderating on the run really doesn't work. Thanks to you, and to Glenn.

p.s. I have been moderated before, while fulfilling the moderating role too.

 

[b4man]

Pete, you do not owe me an apology but I appreciate it. It's what we do and I am always glad to help in any way.

Glenn, I appreciate you being so understanding.

If I didn't care so deeply for everyone here I wouldn't have felt so bad about it.:wsad:


Barbara

 

[cskipper]

Barbara,
I hate that this all hit you. It's definitely uncomfortable moderating anyone, let alone another moderator. It sounds like the tone was completely unacceptable.

 

[froglips]

While this was understandably unpleasant for you, I commend you for doing what had to be done.

Jim

 

[Travis Porter]

If you hadn't deleted or moderated it, I was going to do so. I did edit Alan's post in whatever he commented on Glenn about.

So we are all on the same page, I discussed this with Doug Robinson yesterday and made sure that he understands that I believe this is his fault. Totally his fault. ;-) Caught him off guard too.

Seriously, I believe a lot of Alan's posts have been self serving, but that does not make them over the line. I do believe many of his posts have been argumentative and in a way talking down to others, and they could and should be moderated. I am not "officially" a moderator, and I stay away from it except for yesterday with the fire that was burning with Alan's posts and Glenn's responses. I did get a PM from Alan, but I did not respond intentionally, as I felt it best to let it die down.

Barbara, I believe you did the right thing, even if you didn't know how to do it. Glenn's post was unfortunate, but hey, we all make mistakes and spout off at times, not that I have ever done that. Even if I agreed with Glenn's post (which I did) it isn't something we should say to the general membership.

For me personally, I like having Glenn as a moderator, and I would like him to stay as a moderator. I would suggest that he doesn't moderate any of Alan's posts even if justified for a while so that there is no preconceived notion of bias. If it needs moderating, put it in moderation.

My hopes are that this is over, it dies down, and it goes away. Still, feel free to PM Doug Robinson anytime. I think his PM limit is up to 50,000 now, and I KNOW he got a bunch yesterday....:rotflm:

 

[Douglas Robinson]

My hopes are that this is over, it dies down, and it goes away. Still, feel free to PM Doug Robinson anytime. I think his PM limit is up to 50,000 now, and I KNOW he got a bunch yesterday....:rotflm:

Karma will get you Travis! I think it was Confusious (sic) that said "May you live in interesting times." Well there seems to never be a dull moment around here.

Oh, BTW our lawyer handling the non-profit status filing left his firm last week. So now I am trying to get a hold of the person that now has our case.

I have plans to do some woodworking in 2012.:wink_smil

 

[b4man]

Just when I feel that I may be too disgusted to even respond to those decent enough to respond to me, I read Travis' post. It was a much needed reminder of the spirit this site was developed. Thanks Travis. It's good to know someone is still here with a cool head and without a personal agenda.


Unfortunate is a good word to describe Glenn's rant. What's even more unfortunate is the way it was handled by our leadership.

We moderators may be at the bottom of the food chain on this staff but there are some things we shouldn't be expected to perform. When Pete wrote me to ask my advice and help regarding the content and tone of Glenn's post I immediately responded that Doug or Tracy needed to be notified. I thought this because I felt that this was far more serious than just slapping the hand of the poster especially a fellow moderator. If this situation had been minor as most of our issues are, I would have had no problem dealing with Glenn or anyone else. But, in the 4 years I've been a member I've never read anything that inflamed. ( Even from Eagle,r.i.p.)
In my opinion this was no job for a peer. Was I that wrong?

I'm not sure what's going on here these days. Too much time being cooped up? Too little other avenues to vent frustrations? Not enough sawdust to collect?

Yep, we all make mistakes. What's important is that we learn from them. I have no doubt Glenn has and I'd like to think I have.


Barbara

 

[Douglas Robinson]

In all seriousness, my response when this came up was "put the thread in moderation." That way we could deal with it as a collective and not in front of the public.

Yes, I considered this matter serious. My problem was, and is, how have Alan's posts violated our policies? Yes, he is taking threads deliberately off-topic to espouse whatever the heck he is talking about. But, that in and of itself was not enough for me. I do not want to drawing conclusions as to his motives.

I do understand Glen's frustration with Alan, but that did not make Glen's response correct. It was not going to get Alan to stop. In fact instead Alan started making personal attacks or implications in other threads. How is this making things better?

Glen was at least acting to protect the members. Alan was acting to do what? Make his ego bigger?

Since it was near impossible to pull a meeting together rapidly enough to respond to the matter, I suggested putting the thread in moderation. Travis and I agreed during our talk that it was best if he pulled the plug rather than me, as I have been receiving a lot of PM traffic from various people on this matter, not the least of which were Alan's multiple PM's.

I think it would have been possible to privately admonish Alan about his posts before this latest skirmish as it gives him some moral high-ground to claim he is being persecuted.

I am amazed at how much time this is taking up. :sad11:

 

[NCPete]

sorry, I should have put the thread in moderation when I found it, but wanted a second opinion and I was heading out the door as I stumbled upon it. I will do that next time, and then put out the call for a second opinion. Thanks Barbara, for taking the heat on this one.

 

[TracyP]

I assume the posts in question were hard deleted. I don't see them in the thread.:dontknow::dontknow:

 

[Glennbear]

I assume the posts in question were hard deleted. I don't see them in the thread.:dontknow::dontknow:

Yes they were. :wsmile:

 

[Douglas Robinson]

OK, deep breath...

First, in all future issues like this, if you have a doubt put the thread in moderation immediately. That does not mean delete it. That means take it out of the public eye so that the best course of action can be determined.

Second, our policies only cover public posts. This means that if you have an issue with another member you can PM that person.

Third, I feel that the present situation with Alan warrants a PM from me. What follows is the first draft. Please feel free to comment.

Alan:

I am sending this message in view of your recent disruptive posts, some of which relate to dust collection. While I do not agree with Glenn’s making his post in a public forum, you should understand that the majority of the staff and many members have complained about the disruptive nature of your posts and also your posts on this topic. The original poster in at least one thread has asked to have the thread closed on account of the fact that their thread was deliberately taken off-subject.

As I know you are well-aware, dust collection can be a hot-button topic. Feelings run strong. I know that Steve felt the need to speak to you about similar issues in the past. NCWoodworker tries to maintain a friendly atmosphere. While I know you have put a lot of time and energy into dust collection design and solutions, presenting your ideas so frequently and forcefully has raised resentment and caused people to question your motives. Glenn’s post was just one manifestation of this.

Your post in CardinalCyn’s “who we are thread” included an uncalled for dig back at him. These sorts of posts have to stop. Glenn has been spoken too about this. I have no intention of asking for his resignation as a moderator. I know that he was trying to act in what he considered to be the best interests of the membership. It was how he chose to express himself that was wrong.

Glenn made a good suggestion in his post, namely if you have a configuration and/or improvements, to present them in their own thread, instead of in threads where they are not directly related to the topic. As an example, junquecol’s thread was simply showing his build of a chip separator. He did not say that it cleared small particles.

In conclusion please understand that if you continue to make posts as previously described, the BoD may have to take actions to restrict your membership rights. This is something we are loathe to do to anyone.

Douglas Robinson
President
NCWoodworker

 

[TracyP]

OK, deep breath...

First, in all future issues like this, if you have a doubt put the thread in moderation immediately. That does not mean delete it. That means take it out of the public eye so that the best course of action can be determined.

Second, our policies only cover public posts. This means that if you have an issue with another member you can PM that person.

Third, I feel that the present situation with Alan warrants a PM from me. What follows is the first draft. Please feel free to comment.

Alan:

I am sending this message in view of your recent posts relating to dust collection. While I do not agree with Glenn’s making his post in a public forum, you should understand that the majority of the staff and many members have complained about your posts on this topic. The original poster in at least one thread has asked to have the thread closed on account of the fact that their thread was deliberately taken off-subject.

As I know you are well-aware, dust collection can be a hot-button topic. Feelings run strong. I know that Steve felt the need to speak to you about similar issues in the past. NCWoodworker tries to maintain a friendly atmosphere. While I know you have put a lot of time and energy into dust collection design and solutions, presenting your ideas so frequently and forcefully has raised resentment and caused people to question your motives. Glenn’s post was just one manifestation of this.

Your post in CardinalCyn’s “who we are thread” included an uncalled for dig back at him. These sorts of posts have to stop. Glenn has been spoken too about this. I have no intention of asking for his resignation as a moderator. I know that he was trying to act in what he considered to be the best interests of the membership. It was how he chose to express himself that was wrong.

Glenn made a good suggestion in his post, namely if you have a configuration and/or improvements, to present them in their own thread, instead of in threads where they are not directly related to the topic. As an example, junquecol’s thread was simply showing his build of a chip separator. He did not say that it cleared small particles.

In conclusion please understand that if you continue to make posts as previously described, the BoD may have to take actions to restrict your membership rights. This is something we are loathe to do to anyone.

Douglas Robinson
President
NCWoodworker

I'm Good with it as is.

 

[NCPete]

very good!

 

[Ray Martin]

Looks good... I do have one bit of nit pickage... (see in line edit, para 3) and one extra comma (after the word conclusion in last para)

(Sister Mary Language-Arts-Teacher had a brass ruler)

OK, deep breath...

First, in all future issues like this, if you have a doubt put the thread in moderation immediately. That does not mean delete it. That means take it out of the public eye so that the best course of action can be determined.

Second, our policies only cover public posts. This means that if you have an issue with another member you can PM that person.

Third, I feel that the present situation with Alan warrants a PM from me. What follows is the first draft. Please feel free to comment.

Alan:

I am sending this message in view of your recent disruptive posts, some of which relate to dust collection. While I do not agree with Glenn’s making his post in a public forum, you should understand that the majority of the staff and many members have complained about the disruptive nature of your posts and also your posts on this topic. The original poster in at least one thread has asked to have the thread closed on account of the fact that their thread was deliberately taken off-subject.

As I know you are well-aware, dust collection can be a hot-button topic. Feelings run strong. I know that Steve felt the need to speak to you about similar issues in the past. NCWoodworker tries to maintain a friendly atmosphere. While I know you have put a lot of time and energy into dust collection design and solutions, presenting your ideas so frequently and forcefully has raised resentment and caused people to question your motives. Glenn’s post was just one manifestation of this.

Your post in CardinalCyn’s “who we are thread” included an uncalled for dig back at him. These sorts of posts have to stop. Glenn has been spoken [STRIKE]too[/STRIKE] to about this. I have no intention of asking for his resignation as a moderator. I know that he was trying to act in what he considered to be the best interests of the membership. It was how he chose to express himself that was wrong.

Glenn made a good suggestion in his post, namely if you have a configuration and/or improvements, to present them in their own thread, instead of in threads where they are not directly related to the topic. As an example, junquecol’s thread was simply showing his build of a chip separator. He did not say that it cleared small particles.

In conclusion, please understand that if you continue to make posts as previously described, the BoD may have to take actions to restrict your membership rights. This is something we are loathe to do to anyone.

Douglas Robinson
President
NCWoodworker

 

[toolman]

I though me was not going to hard delete posts or threads? :dontknow: When hard deleted they are gone! If we soft delete we can all see and maybe learn something.. Soft deleted posts and threads can not be seen by member only staff can click view to view the post or thread to view.:eusa_booh Let me get back to work.. :rolf:

 

[Douglas Robinson]

Tracy you are too fast. I already made changes. I emphasized the "disruptive" nature of his posts so that it will not be taken as our objection to any showing "expertise". Rather it is anyone being disruptive. This has precedent with Eagle and others in the past.

 

[Glennbear]

Being one of the subjects in the letter obviously my opinion cannot be viewed as objective. Having said that I think it gets the administration's views across quite clearly. Whether the recepient heeds the message or not is a whole different question. :wsmile: