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"Creative" is NOT part of my DNA! :nah: I use and enjoy plans of all kinds. I especially like the ones in Shop Notes and WoodSmith. :icon_thum
I can follow plans and get decent results. Unless it's something I have built repetitively, I enjoy having a plan and a cut list to go by. Maybe if the day comes when my skills reach the level of some of our members, I can create stuff. For now, I'll stick with plans!
:wsmile:
I can follow plans and get decent results. Unless it's something I have built repetitively, I enjoy having a plan and a cut list to go by. Maybe if the day comes when my skills reach the level of some of our members, I can create stuff. For now, I'll stick with plans!
:wsmile:
Most detailed set of "Plans" I ever used.
I am in the group that hasn't used someone elses plans. Having a drafting and design background from years ago for me half the fun is developing a set a plans that I can build with my equipment and limited joinery skills. That being said:
1. I will look at others work and try to figure out how they did something and I may copy it.(I don't feel like I have to reinvent the wheel)
2. I can't seem to build anything without at least some details sketched out on grid paper.( I tend to draw up an assembly drawing with Autocad to work out proportions, then use the grid paper to sketch up details, drawers, doors, etc. as I go)
3. I have been known to carry a tape measure in my pocket when browsing through furniture showrooms to get some ideas about standard sizes/proportions.
This is all about a hobby/passion for me. If I were trying to make a profit I would definitely be going with tried and true plans.
Mike
1. I will look at others work and try to figure out how they did something and I may copy it.(I don't feel like I have to reinvent the wheel)
2. I can't seem to build anything without at least some details sketched out on grid paper.( I tend to draw up an assembly drawing with Autocad to work out proportions, then use the grid paper to sketch up details, drawers, doors, etc. as I go)
3. I have been known to carry a tape measure in my pocket when browsing through furniture showrooms to get some ideas about standard sizes/proportions.
This is all about a hobby/passion for me. If I were trying to make a profit I would definitely be going with tried and true plans.
Mike
Not to hijack this thread, but its been such an interesting topic, I've added it to the New Memeber Chat this thrusday night.
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/f23/new-member-chat-5-27-7-30pm-topic-plans-32361/
Jim
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/f23/new-member-chat-5-27-7-30pm-topic-plans-32361/
Jim
I couldn't have said it better. me too.
What's a "Memeber" and when is "thrusday" ? :rotflm:
Lot of interesting facets to this discussion. Zac put the wrod "buy" in the title and in his post he asked specifically about "projects" which I took to mean stuff that comes out of the shop, rather than stuff that stays in, like jigs. I imagine the response would be different if free (downloaded or included in a magazine you bought without regard to the specific plan) plans and/or jigs were included. There is also a big difference between building your own design and building a copy of something you have seen without plans.
Which is why I particularly asked about bought plans. I have a few books with plans that I would happily share. I think buy a book or a magazine sorta constitutes a bought plan as the purchase of such publication funds the plan maker or publisher of such plans. One thing I've seen over and over is the use of inspiration of the plan itself. I too have never followed a plan by the letter. When we moved into our first apartment over 7 yrs ago, an E-3 could only afford hand-me-downs and Wal-mart specials. Even with the Wal-mart specials I tended to do some shoring up and extra glue.
M
McRabbet
An interesting thread -- I've thought about my past projects and it seems that there is an interesting split in my recent repertoire. I've done 10 commission projects in the past 4 years and all of them were original designs based on what the customer expressed and wanted. Fortunately, I have a decent eye for what looks good, what materials complement each other and I could draw up a set of plans in a CAD program or SketchUp that would allow the client to visualize the marriage of their concept and my project plan. In every case, no exact published plan I've ever seen would have suited the need. All were pleased when the project was complete.
On the other hand, I have built 3 projects from magazine plans because they were well-conceived and solid plans -- the Blanket Chest/Toy Chest for my grandson (shown below) was from an article in American Woodworker; a tool chest in my shop came from Popular Woodworking; and several toys I've built for needy kids have come from published works.
On the other hand, I have built 3 projects from magazine plans because they were well-conceived and solid plans -- the Blanket Chest/Toy Chest for my grandson (shown below) was from an article in American Woodworker; a tool chest in my shop came from Popular Woodworking; and several toys I've built for needy kids have come from published works.
I have no problem working from other people's plans. Especially if I am building something that I have not built before.
I do try to find free plans first, either on-line or looking through magazine back issues. Having the Wood Magazine DVD will help a lot with searches. :wsmile:
I have purchased many plans when I was unable to find what I needed for free. But, like others have stated, I rarely follow those plans to the letter. The plans are just used as a general guide and to clarify some of the elements of the design that I could not visualize on my own.
I would have to place myself firmly in the 'not creative enough' camp. But, SWMBO has been very, very good at teaching me how to properly follow instructions.:wsmile:
I do try to find free plans first, either on-line or looking through magazine back issues. Having the Wood Magazine DVD will help a lot with searches. :wsmile:
I have purchased many plans when I was unable to find what I needed for free. But, like others have stated, I rarely follow those plans to the letter. The plans are just used as a general guide and to clarify some of the elements of the design that I could not visualize on my own.
I would have to place myself firmly in the 'not creative enough' camp. But, SWMBO has been very, very good at teaching me how to properly follow instructions.:wsmile:
In a sense, I buy a LOT of plans - I've been a subscriber to ShopNotes and WoodSmith for more than 10 years. As a result, I've got a pretty good collection. I subscribe to magazines almost solely for the plans and related techniques.
I've never bought dedicated plans - probably because it is hard to evaluate the quality.
Someone mentioned that using somebody else's plans removes the creativity. That may be partially true, but at least for me, creativity is only a tiny part of the project. There are many aspects of craftsmanship (joinery, assembly quality, wood selection, finishing) and all of them are still a challenge for me. Working from plans gives me one less thing to worry about. That, and I already have one job where I design things all day long. I don't need another :> If I was retired and had all day to spend woodworking, I wouldn't mind 10-20 hours of design work on a project. Alas, I don't have that luxury.
I'm about to start a project that I really, really wish I could have found plans for. I didn't and that is probably part of the reason I haven't started it yet. I keep going back to my plans and try to figure out what horrible mistake I've made that I won't discover until I'm about to start hanging the doors.
So for me, working from plans increases the overall enjoyment...and probably improves the outcome as well.
I've never bought dedicated plans - probably because it is hard to evaluate the quality.
Someone mentioned that using somebody else's plans removes the creativity. That may be partially true, but at least for me, creativity is only a tiny part of the project. There are many aspects of craftsmanship (joinery, assembly quality, wood selection, finishing) and all of them are still a challenge for me. Working from plans gives me one less thing to worry about. That, and I already have one job where I design things all day long. I don't need another :> If I was retired and had all day to spend woodworking, I wouldn't mind 10-20 hours of design work on a project. Alas, I don't have that luxury.
I'm about to start a project that I really, really wish I could have found plans for. I didn't and that is probably part of the reason I haven't started it yet. I keep going back to my plans and try to figure out what horrible mistake I've made that I won't discover until I'm about to start hanging the doors.
So for me, working from plans increases the overall enjoyment...and probably improves the outcome as well.
I have read back through all of the posts very carefully and no one said that.
I don't know why people keep trying to make something negative out of a very positive statement.
Several people did say that they don't feel that they are very creative and need plans to begin a project, but almost every one of them then went on to say that they altered the plans or made changes in the final project. To me that is creativity.
Saying that I would rather design my own projects is not (to me) a negative thing and in no way is intended to say that anyone who uses someone else's plans is any less of an artist. Please don't put words in my mouth that I totally disagree with.
I quite clearly did not. I never mentioned your name, nor did I quote anything from your posts.
I'll offer a guess that "Buying plans means building somebody else's project" was interpreted as condescending, rather than "very positive". I can see how someone might take it that way and apparently some did. I can also see how one might interpret that to imply than one is not being creative if one chooses to use somebody else's plans.
Now, if our moderators are consistent, they will edit out my statements in my own defense and leave your comment standing...making me look like a bad guy (like last time).
Chris
I am not going to delete or edit either of your posts at this time. There is no problem with expressing your opinions as long as you are respectful and considerate. You both have made your points. Please, let's leave it at that and move on.
As a scroller I am always using someone else's design. I might modify it, but I really do not have the "design" gene. I have created one pattern, but waste an enormous amount of time & frustration doing this. I'd rather ask someone I know who does design patterns to help if I have a specific item I want to cut and haven't found a pattern.
So far alot of people have expressed many opinions about this question I proposed. I have seen alot of points of view and don't feel so bad in using plans with my mods in them. I should be starting a hope/blanket chest this weekend or next week. I'm thinking something with panels in it, well sorta. I'll have to surprise you guys when it is finished. One of this days, when I know how to do more complex joinery and have the tooling to do so, I will design my own with some really cool stuff to it.:icon_thum
I like using some of the plans in woodworkers magazine or drawing them up myself. Even when I use plans, I also seem to always make some slight modifications so the piece fits better in the room where it will sit. I also like how plans save me time, help teach me a new technique and offer the customer a finished look at the end product. Good discussion!
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