Dust Proof Electrical Covers in New Shop

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JohnW

New User
John
My local inspector (Charlotte) told me I would need dust proof RATED electrical covers on all my outlet boxes. On a search all I could find were Pass & Seymour stainless steel cover plates, which for a standard duplex outlet, costs between $35.00-$50.00/each.

I've been in lots of hobby shops and have not seen or noticed anything other than standard outlets. Don't remember seeing any dust covers in anyone's shop.

AM I MISSING SOMETHING? Any electrical folks out there that can enlighten me on rated dust proof covers? Are they commonly required in home applications? Where can I buy these covers for less than my arm and two legs?

Thanks.
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
John, after building in the Charlotte area all my adult life, all I can say is, "Welcome to the Great State of Mecklenburg!" Code Enforcement Officials here are very strict on any issue they feel will expose them to a future liability. Waterproof switches may not suffice. Many times dust will find its way into a box anyway. Is the wiring in conduit, or Romex? If Romex, you'll need to caulk the knockout shut too.
Did you have your shop equipment in the space when the Inspector visited? Many times this is the clincher.
If they are, it is implied that you intend to do WWing there. They are obliged to enforce what they see, including the lack of an Underwriter's label on any equipment there. If the tools aren't there, they have no way to verify a potential use. Once a space is occupied the aren't legally allowed back on your property without a search warrant of at the behest of the Fire Marshal for an arson investigation.
Hope you find some covers. I'd check with the local electrical supply companies. BORGs don't typically carry such specialty items (but they WILL sell you the tools that need them).

All the same, I'm with you. I've never encountered this issue.
 

JohnW

New User
John
Hi Dennis...finally got around to building the shop we talked about last year. Took me awhile because I had to find another job, which at my age isn't easy.

The shop is empty and no wiring yet. Was planning on Romex. During the foundation inspection I was asked what the building was going to be used for. (I was advised to say "storage only" but wouldn't lie) I told her it was mostly for my woodworking hobby. She muttered something about dust proof or dust tight fixtures and outlets. At first she said explosion proof :eusa_doh:Then after I fainted, she said dust tight or dust proof.

If I install dust collection and gasketed covers, I'm hoping to get a waiver...but as you say...Welcome to the Kingdom of Mecklenburg.

I'm not sure if this is NEC, fire codes, Meck government or all of the above. I plan on visiting the main office downtown (uptown?) on Monday and find someone to clarify.
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
Get anything they tell you in writing. Seldom do Administrators override an inspector's interpretation but it is known to happen. Glad to see you're moving forward. Keep us posted on the progress. I'll try & drop by some day. I'm working near Arboretum & it's almost on the way home.
 

JohnW

New User
John
New job has me covering Maine to Florida...but I'm home all this week. If you stop by around noon, lunch is on me. Heck, stop by anytime and something will be on me.
 

Glennbear

Moderator
Glenn
John, after building in the Charlotte area all my adult life, all I can say is, "Welcome to the Great State of Mecklenburg!" Code Enforcement Officials here are very strict on any issue they feel will expose them to a future liability. Waterproof switches may not suffice. Many times dust will find its way into a box anyway. Is the wiring in conduit, or Romex? If Romex, you'll need to caulk the knockout shut too.
Did you have your shop equipment in the space when the Inspector visited? Many times this is the clincher.
If they are, it is implied that you intend to do WWing there. They are obliged to enforce what they see, including the lack of an Underwriter's label on any equipment there. If the tools aren't there, they have no way to verify a potential use. Once a space is occupied the aren't legally allowed back on your property without a search warrant of at the behest of the Fire Marshal for an arson investigation.
Hope you find some covers. I'd check with the local electrical supply companies. BORGs don't typically carry such specialty items (but they WILL sell you the tools that need them).

All the same, I'm with you. I've never encountered this issue.


As a former municipal fire inspector and NJ state fire official I find that requiring dust proof fixtures in a home/hobby wood shop ludicrous. Far too often municipal/county inspectors and code administrators are "code quoters" which can lead to problems since the NEC is a massive text and like any other large tome is subject to interpretation. The pertinent section of Article 500 of the NEC which apparently local officials failed to read is as follows:

"The quantity of combustible dust that may be present and the adequacy of dust removal systems are factors that merit consideration in determining the classification and may result in an unclassified area"

i.e. - If there is not enough dust produced to be a hazard then the workspace is not classified as a hazardous location and special fixtures are not required.

Time and time again over the years I have seen inspectors who are unfamiliar with a particular process (hobby woodworking) or an occupancy (home shop) use the strictest (and erroneous) code interpretation to compensate for their lack of knowledge. :wsmile:
[SIZE=-1]Fear of the unknown translates to fear of losing control. In order to feel safe, we feel we must control every variable--human, environmental, technical. And yet, as life, this just isn't realistic. Controlling everything that's around the corner simply isn't possible.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]IVY NAISTADT, Speak Without Fear[/SIZE]
 
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JohnW

New User
John
I spoke w/ Char/Meck code enforcement. I asked them to clarify what type of "dust cover" I would be required to install. I explained that I needed to buy supplies and wanted guidance on what would be required to pass inspection.

Their answer...from the director of electrical div code enforcement:
I would have to hire a testing lab and conduct a study to determine the amount of dust created and size of dust particles. They want to know how much dust, how many particles less than 1 micron, and how many particles between 1-4 microns. This study MUST be signed by a licensed PE.

I asked how I was supposed to do this without power??? No answer. I was dumb enough to ask him if he realized how stupid that sounded to a guy trying to build a friggin hobby shop with most of my work being done without power tools.:BangHead:

After a long "discussion", he told me I should have never mentioned the word "woodworking"... Said to go ahead and build it as a shed and not put any electrical in it....and after permit is closed, I could add elect and pull a permit for it but not to mention the word woodworking....Say "power is for general purposes". So basically....lie. FWIW - He would not put that in writing.

He said all outlets must be recessed (which they are) and all light fixtures must be flush mounted. All electrical boxes should be installed with no flat surfaces exposed to settling dust. All common sense but he never would/could tell me what covers, and enclosures/boxes would be required.

I'm moving ahead and wiring the shop this weekend. They are going to do what they want to. I tried to play by their rules...they just don't have a good handle on what their rules are, and I can't afford to cover their arsses. We'll see:wconfused: what happens.


HEY DENNIS - I got your gift.:eusa_danc Thanks for the lights. When did you stop by??? I hate that I missed you.
 

cliff56

cliff
Corporate Member
john i have read your post on this with great interest.i have been a n.c licensed electricaial contractor for over 20 yrs and i have never heard of this in a home shop, or commerical for that matter, but the NEC is the master code for the US but open to a million interptations by inspectors many of whom have never wired anything in their life. Follow the mans advice call it a storage bldg put in a couple lights and recpt get it passed then add what you need , properly installed of course. good luck and keep us posted.

cliff
 

petebucy4638

Pete
Corporate Member
My local inspector (Charlotte) told me I would need dust proof RATED electrical covers on all my outlet boxes. On a search all I could find were Pass & Seymour stainless steel cover plates, which for a standard duplex outlet, costs between $35.00-$50.00/each.

I've been in lots of hobby shops and have not seen or noticed anything other than standard outlets. Don't remember seeing any dust covers in anyone's shop.

AM I MISSING SOMETHING? Any electrical folks out there that can enlighten me on rated dust proof covers? Are they commonly required in home applications? Where can I buy these covers for less than my arm and two legs?

Thanks.
Raise your hand if you think that we need more government regulations. I didn't think so!

Standard water-resistant covers - the type used on exterior outlets are a dust-proof as any covers that you can buy. I'm surprised that the inspector didn't demand that you use explosion-proof motors in all of your tools. What an idiot!

Essentially what you are doing is constructing a detached residential structure that will be home to a table saw and a few other woodworking tools. In all my years of building homes I have never seen an NEC specification for dust covers for convenience outlets in a garage or home shop. I've never heard of it being mentioned.

NEC addresses various hazardous materials and situations where efforts have to be made to protect electrical motors, switches, and other components. Class I refers to explosive vapors, Class II is for explosive dusts such as flour or cornstarch.

Class III- Fibers or flyings that are easily ignitable but are not apt to be suspended in air in such amounts to produce ignitable mixtures. Example: Rayon, Nylon, Cotton, Sawdust or Wood Chips, etc.


Sawdust is not considered to be a material that is suspended in the air. When changing outlets in my shops I have never seen where sawdust infiltrated a switch, an outlet, or an electrical box. If you have a subpanel in your shop, how does the inspector expect you to make it dust-proof?



Most of the tools in your shop would not meet the same rating that he is imposing on your electrical outlets. If he thinks that you are producing explosive levels of dust then he should require explosion-proof motors and not allow you to us any motor that uses brushes because they all produce sparks.



How you fix this sort of thing is to retain a lawyer and sue the Mecklenburg County. Let this little tin god explain to a judge and a jury the reasoning behind his truly absurd ruling.



Pete
 

ehpoole

Moderator
Ethan
Raise your hand if you think that we need more government regulations. I didn't think so!

Without wanting this to degrade into politics, I must cast a vote in favor of practical regulation. Requirements such as covers on bandsaws and seat belts in cars, cost very little in terms of manufacturing cost and interfere very little with normal, and intended, use of a machine, yet they offer tremendous bang-for-the-buck improvements in overall safety. The same goes for reasonable food and medicine regulations, particularly where mass market enters the equation and the reputation of the grower or manufacture is unknown to the consumer.

The problem with attempts at regulations such as proposed here is that it not only prices a workshop outside the realm of the average homeowner, but it also lacks any apparent science supporting such strict interpretation. Unless I am mistaken, there has been no great rash of exploding workshops as of late, whether it be Meck. Cty. or the country at large. Not only that, but the rationale totally breaks down the first time the shop owner fires up a router, miter saw, or any other universal motor-powered equipment -- including the power sanders that are the ONLY real source of explosive micron-sized dust within a typical shop. Unless this year's power sanders have quietly developed a reputation for spontaneous explosivity in use, I don't see where explosive-proof or dust-proof shop wiring and fixtures comes into play. In fact, the only scenerio where I can see a dust-proof outlet having some practical value is if you happen to locate a receptacle directly behind your miter saw's dust port. I can not imagine any other scenerio whereby a respectable volume of dust -- enough to represent a combustion risk -- would ever sufficiently infiltrate a receptacle or its wiring box.

In point of fact, I have an ordinary single-gang receptacle box wired as part of a custom extension cord (#12/3 SJOW) that provides 240V 20A to my jointer, table saw, and band saw. It rests on the floor between the jointer, table saw, router table, and sanding station and despite 4 years of residence in the same location, there is no measurable sawdust within the wiring box and there is nothing air-tight about the box -- I don't think it could be in a much worse location if dust infiltration were a serious issue!

In fact, with the tremendous focus we modern woodworkers place on dust collection -- both primary point-of-use collection and secondary ambient air filtration, coupled with regular vacuuming or sweeping of the floor -- the risks of explosion or fire related to wood dust should be reduced by many orders of magnitude compared to the shop of old where the floors were typically caked in inches, if not feet, of sawdust. In fact, I would argue that our dust collectors represent about the only practical risk of sawdust explosion, and such explosions in dust collection systems are extraordinarily rare in collectors of 3HP or less (which represents the vast majority of hobby workshops).

Just my $0.02 on the subject!
 

JohnW

New User
John
I'm hoping for common sense...we'll see?

The irony here is...I had planned on wiring the "SHED" myself with the help of a friend/lisenced electrician. The money saved from this was being used for dust collection. One reason I have a block foundation and crawl space is for running ducts under floor. Now dust collection will have to wait till I can afford it because I went ahead and hired an electrical contractor to do the work. Didn't want to take a chance of my friend getting involved in any issues with the permit etc...

My mother lives close by and most of my shop is in her garage. We are moving her very soon and I MUST move my tools because we're selling her house... so the STORAGE SHED is moving forward with or without permit issues.

I had already intended to have my receptacles recessed, panel recessed and flush mounted lights. I don't own any power sanders beyond hand sanding and most of my finish work is by planes and scraping, not sanding. I'm installing tamper proof covers with seals over all outlets. They will not be clean room, institutional grade dust proof covers...just gasketed covers which are not wanted by me but affordable.

All will be to code and common sense should take hold at some point. If not, I'll deal with whatever they come up with. Not going to worry about it now. Just want to get it finished so I can start "storing equipment". This SHED has been my dream for many years. No bureaucrat will douse that excitement.

I apologize for posting this in the workshop forum....didn't see a SHED forum but moderators can make a SHED forum and move this thread if they see fit.
 

MarkE

Administrator
Mark
When my building was going up, it was listed on the permit as a garage. The inspector came by and asked me how I was going to get a car in there, since the door opening was 3 ft off the ground. I told him I wasn't going to put any cars in there. He made us change the permit to read storage building instead of garage. OK. Fine.

He also asked my why I was having 200 amp service in a storage building. I told him "why not?". He said OK and never asked about it again.

Sometimes the less you say the better.
 

Glennbear

Moderator
Glenn
Without wanting this to degrade into politics, I must cast a vote in favor of practical regulation. Requirements such as covers on bandsaws and seat belts in cars, cost very little in terms of manufacturing cost and interfere very little with normal, and intended, use of a machine, yet they offer tremendous bang-for-the-buck improvements in overall safety. The same goes for reasonable food and medicine regulations, particularly where mass market enters the equation and the reputation of the grower or manufacture is unknown to the consumer.

The problem with attempts at regulations such as proposed here is that it not only prices a workshop outside the realm of the average homeowner, but it also lacks any apparent science supporting such strict interpretation. Unless I am mistaken, there has been no great rash of exploding workshops as of late, whether it be Meck. Cty. or the country at large. Not only that, but the rationale totally breaks down the first time the shop owner fires up a router, miter saw, or any other universal motor-powered equipment -- including the power sanders that are the ONLY real source of explosive micron-sized dust within a typical shop. Unless this year's power sanders have quietly developed a reputation for spontaneous explosivity in use, I don't see where explosive-proof or dust-proof shop wiring and fixtures comes into play. In fact, the only scenerio where I can see a dust-proof outlet having some practical value is if you happen to locate a receptacle directly behind your miter saw's dust port. I can not imagine any other scenerio whereby a respectable volume of dust -- enough to represent a combustion risk -- would ever sufficiently infiltrate a receptacle or its wiring box.

In point of fact, I have an ordinary single-gang receptacle box wired as part of a custom extension cord (#12/3 SJOW) that provides 240V 20A to my jointer, table saw, and band saw. It rests on the floor between the jointer, table saw, router table, and sanding station and despite 4 years of residence in the same location, there is no measurable sawdust within the wiring box and there is nothing air-tight about the box -- I don't think it could be in a much worse location if dust infiltration were a serious issue!

In fact, with the tremendous focus we modern woodworkers place on dust collection -- both primary point-of-use collection and secondary ambient air filtration, coupled with regular vacuuming or sweeping of the floor -- the risks of explosion or fire related to wood dust should be reduced by many orders of magnitude compared to the shop of old where the floors were typically caked in inches, if not feet, of sawdust. In fact, I would argue that our dust collectors represent about the only practical risk of sawdust explosion, and such explosions in dust collection systems are extraordinarily rare in collectors of 3HP or less (which represents the vast majority of hobby workshops).

Just my $0.02 on the subject!

I totally agree Ethan, although my response above was a lot shorter. :gar-La; Best of luck with your STORAGE SHED John, hopefully common sense will prevail in the end. :wsmile:
 

JackLeg

New User
Reggie
This is what really "grinds my grits" about regulation. We are now into the "What if" and "what might happen" scenario's.

This isn't about safety, :nah:it's about collecting fees, justifying jobs, and throwing away our brains to keep a County "indemnified" from litigation!

SHEESH!! :gar-Cr
 

junquecol

Bruce
Senior User
The Dept of Insurance in Raleigh is your friend. Call or better write them and question the inspector's thinking. Despite local inspection depts. thinking, Insurance Dept. Rules! In the early eighties, I worked for a company that specialized in "tilt up construction." Our engineer was in contact with the Insurance Dept. almost daily because inspectors weren't familiar with this type of construction. Section 500 may not even apply to home workshops.
 

Drew Roy

New User
Drew
John, The simple solution is neoprene duplex gaskets which coupled with a metal (not plastic)cover plate and the weather resistant metal boxes with proper connectors. Should the inspector question the combination, I would point out that water by nature will seep and dust will not. You could also have a look at OSHA.Gov for other references. As long as you exceed the mininum standard (and point it out for the cluless) then there should be no issues about passing.:dontknow:
 

FlyingRon

Moderator
Ron
I've had my own fun in Catawba. I was going to put my shop in the back of my airplane hangar. Airplane hangars (even in a residential situation) are commercial buildings but there is an exception for less than 2000 square feet. Fine. Build a wall (just has to meet 1 hour fire standard) between the shop and the hangar to reduce the hangar floor area from 3000 to 2000. Still can get the plane and boat in the hangar and now don't have to worry about dust on everything.

Submitted my request for septic permit (which requires me marking out the footprint of the house). Passes no problem. Then some code enforcement guy gets a look at the plans, cancels my septic permit and says I'm not in conformance because the front door isn't "parallel with the street." (yes, it in fact faces my driveway which comes in from the side). Seems to be some silly ordinance for avoiding people stuffing doublewides endwise on narrow lots. Great, convince his boss that we can just make a small alcove to turn the door 90 degrees (mind you it now faces across the front walk to the garage, but it's parallel to the street). This is all fine until we get into the building process. That can't be the front door. But no problem, this other door can be officially the front door. That door is parallel to the street, but you can only enter it by walking up the deck stairs, through a screen porch, out of the screen porch on to a little balcony and then into the door. Whatever...

Don't even get me started on the nonsense the state puts me through every five years because I decided to go green and put a geothermal heating system in? People have open wells and septic systems that can go FOREVER without inspection, but a closed loop system has to be repermitted every five years?
 

JohnW

New User
John
Electrical inspector came out twice this week. On Tuesday he failed the rough-in because the conduit from the main to the shop sub panel was only 16" deep when it was supposed to be 18". Hmmm?? He measured from the top of pipe, my guy measured from the bottom of the trench. On Thursday, two days later and four inched deeper, it PASSED.

We spoke for a long time about "dust" and I asked what he would be looking for during final. He asked me some good questions and I answered them honestly. From what he said, it looks like common sense will prevail. He was a nice fellow and I think he's convinced that I'm a hobby shed and not a commercial dust producer.

Final inspection should be in approx 2 weeks once we get the walls & ceiling insulated and OSB up. Must finish up a few things on the outside like gutters etc...

I expect to be moving in the tools in less than a month.:eusa_danc
 
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