Water main - PEX or black poly?

mkepke

Mark
Senior User
Had a plumber out on an emergency basis a couple weeks ago to fix a leak in my main waterline from well to house. He did a repair but also recommended (and quoted) replacing the entire main line with PEX. The current main line is thin wall PVC approaching 30 years old.

Doing some research, it looks like black polyethylene pipe is often recommended as more abrasion resistant. Question 1: PEX vs poly here?

Thinking of doing this as DIY as its mostly a job of labor..and I have two teenage sons. Question 2: Anyone successfully used pipe-splitting to re-use the old route, versus trenching a new route and abandoning the old? My existing line is most likely going under some hardscape.

-Mark
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
High-density polyethylene (HDPE) and cross-linked polyethylene (PEX) are both types of polyethylene (PE) plastic piping materials.


HDPE is often used for hot water systems and cold water applications that may experience freezing conditions.


PEX is commonly used in radiant floor heating and hot and cold water systems in homes.


Here are some differences between the two:


  • Flexibility
    HDPE is less flexible than PEX, making it more difficult to install. PEX is flexible and can expand.


  • Temperature tolerance
    HDPE is a good choice for hot water applications, but PEX can tolerate higher and lower temperatures than HDPE. However, PEX can become brittle and crack in high temperatures. PEX has a maximum operating temperature of 200°F.


  • Strength
    HDPE is more durable and resistant to abrasion and impact damage than other PE pipes. PEX is stronger and more flexible than other PE pipes against water pressure.


  • Cost
    HDPE is more expensive per foot than other PE pipes because of its increased strength and durability.


  • Other considerations
    HDPE can be used as a liner in multilayer pipes, where the strength is provided by another pipe layer, such as aluminum. PEX is corrosion-resistant, quiet, and color-coded for hot and cold water. However, PEX isn't ideal for outdoor use and isn't recyclable. Special tools and connectors are also needed for DIY installation.


  • from above my main takeaway is "However, PEX isn't ideal for outdoor use", but it doesnt say why
 

Rob in NC

Rob
Senior User
Interesting that PEX isnt recommended for outdoor use. I have a spring up the mountain and a reservoir half way down and to the house. I was able to dig a trench to put in PVC years ago from the reservoir to the house, but unable to do so due to distance/terrain from the spring to the reservoir. Because I have an overflow on the reservoir, the water from the spring is constantly flowing. While this helps with freezing, I did have a couple times over the years where pipes have frozen. Originally, I had PVC from spring to reservoir... after several breaks, I switched to PEX. I've not had any busting since and after 5 or so year, the PEX has done it's job. The only issue that I have with it is critters tend to like to chew on PEX much more than PVC and I've had to repair a couple spots.
I'd love to bury that pipe from the spring, but that isnt a DIY job for me and unless I get some big equipment up the mountain, it's just not feasible.
 

John Jimenez

JJ
Corporate Member
Mark,

My advice would be to let it ride until you discover you have any more leaks. I wouldn’t recommend replacing it if it has only had one leak. When you do replace it, use a high pressure PVC. IMHO
 

teesquare

T
Senior User
Just my experience with a similar scenario....
I elected to use PEX because of it being shown to go thru 3 freeze-solid events without rupture. But...not wanting to push the envelope....I chose to bury it considerably deeper than the frostline - AND....insulated the pipe with the plastic closed cell foam insulation. This helps further insure the pipe is protected from rock abrasion damage and better resistant to freezing.
 

Craptastic

Matt
Corporate Member
HDPE is suitable for direct burial, and PEX is not. That said, I agree with JJ. You've only had 1 leak and I'm not sure I'd go through the expense and hassle of replacing the line at this time. Another leak and then I would. I would reuse the old route and I would bury an underground rated strand of wire alongside the new pipe laid in the same trench your current pipe would come out of. That way in the future the line can be easily located and marked if someone was to ever dig near it and an old pvc thinwall pipe getting busted when they dug wouldn't make them think they hit the in use line.
 

teesquare

T
Senior User
HDPE is suitable for direct burial, and PEX is not. That said, I agree with JJ. You've only had 1 leak and I'm not sure I'd go through the expense and hassle of replacing the line at this time. Another leak and then I would. I would reuse the old route and I would bury an underground rated strand of wire alongside the new pipe laid in the same trench your current pipe would come out of. That way in the future the line can be easily located and marked if someone was to ever dig near it and an old pvc thinwall pipe getting busted when they dug wouldn't make them think they hit the in use line.
Something noteworthy: Pex is available as burial grade Can PEX Tubing Be Buried? Guidelines, Differences, And Specs
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
Did a suite for an Oral Surgeon about 3 years ago. A water filtration system was used that did NOT allow for copper water piping, only PEX, and the pipes had to be buried. The plumbers buried 3/4" PEX lines to the proper locations and used them as sleeves to push 1/2" PEX lines through. Shorter runs than you're talking about, I know, but with the low friction on PEX piping, it would be possible if larger sizes would accommodate this procedure. PVC can be punctured over time by debris in the trench, so in rocky soil the sand or even clean red clay are good options.
 

ChemE75

Tom
Senior User
As a chem engr I’ve do have some experience with flexible underground piping. Not a lot of PE other than for a flexible conduit or water. My HDPE use was primarily for corrosion resistant tanks. All PEs are fine for drinking water if NSF approved. However, some physical properties do favor PE or HDPE for direct burial. Personally, the only PEX I’ve ever run is above ground and long utility runs normally had a fiber reinforced jacket to resist any abrasion from the mounting hardware. I did not do any residential piping. But all the PEX I have seen has been run inside a PE conduit until it was above the slab.

PE is often used as a generic term by non-engineers who are unfamiliar with the fact there is PE, but also LDPE, MDPE as well as HDPE. PEX is just a cooler way of abbreviating Cross-linked PE. Mostly used due to strength and temp range for smaller diameter cold and hot water piping and easy to form reliable mechanical connections. HD is the most highly abrasion resistant and stiff but it can be more expensive for little gain in residential usage. HDPE is often used for tanks and sheet goods like the food butchering/prep table surfaces in commercial/industrial operations since it can withstand the bleaching type disinfection wash downs.

Each grade has specific requirements for trenching, embedment and backfill. Some are just minor differences but rocky soils, gravel size, uneven loading could impact integrity of the installation. I believe for 1” to 3” pipe, no embedment or fill should be greater than 1/2” but it’s been a long time so don’t quote me on that! Existing PVC should be in a sandy embedment and rock-free backfill, so it should be fine for PE. You should consider things like if it will see compression due to tractor weight rolling over in a field? If so, re-compressing disturbed embedment with a good tamping should suffice. Standard PE will allow for cold radius bends generally no less than 20x OD, it should also unfurl or layout easier than HD. HD is harder to bend without heating from my experience. Mechanical connections are easier to form without leakage with PE. Most PE can be heat welded, but it is not for the inexperienced and I’ve seen experienced welders struggle to do field welding. If I were diy’ing a line from my well to house, I’d go standard PE.in fact my 1840s house in Maine had PE buried about 6ft down for over 50ft to the cellar. It originally clamped onto a copper pipe that was installed with new plumbing in the 80s. The PE was installed in 60s I believe. Around ‘05, the copper gave up the ghost and I installed PEX to the water heater and main cold water branch. When I replaced the well pump and tank a few yrs later, I went all PEX to the PE line to the house. We moved in ‘12 and all was good. The new owners never had any issues with the well or supply. That old PE from the well is probably still there.
 

Oka

Casey
Corporate Member
Up to you, Depending on the distance I would use sch 40 pvc (or 80). If the run is really long, then use 1" HDPE black sometimes called PE pipe. It is heated to weld, it is cheap and you can rent a heat paddle it requires little skill. Only caveat get the straight pipe not rolls, way easier to manage the installation.

Heat seaming pipe example if a person using the heat paddle
 

ChemE75

Tom
Senior User
Up to you, Depending on the distance I would use sch 40 pvc (or 80). If the run is really long, then use 1" HDPE black sometimes called PE pipe. It is heated to weld, it is cheap and you can rent a heat paddle it requires little skill. Only caveat get the straight pipe not rolls, way easier to manage the installation.

Heat seaming pipe example if a person using the heat paddle
Back in the day, we did not have any rental resources for the tools in a facility in rural Maine. Welding was using a sort of heat gun with a spool of pe rod. Big hassle. Anyway that’s was long ago. Any PE can be welded, pex may not since I’ve only seen mechanical connections. But as I said for a water supply line there is no advantage to using a more expensive grade. HD is stiffer, harder and less elastic so for very deep runs that may see heavy backfill loads with equipment loads on top of that, HD makes sense. Otherwise you can make mechanical connections to PE or LD type and will not need to weld.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
Corporate Member
Check the code. I am not sure PEX is compliant for the service entry. The black poly commonly used for service has a much thicker wall.
 

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
If using heat welding, ensure the heat paddle is clean. Back in the late 80s, had a case where a contractor was installing new natural gas lines on an Air Force base out west. They were having repeated failures at the welds. They finally determined the cause when one of the engineers visited the job site during lunch time, and found the crew using the paddle to heat their tortillas. Not sure of the specific type of line, but remember it being orange plastic and newer technology at the time.
 
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AllanD

Allan
Corporate Member
Where was the PVC pipe leaking? It usually will be at a coupling or other fitting. It would be very rare to leak anywhere else, even with thin wall over schedule 40. If there are tree roots along the route that is a possible reason. I have seen roots grow enough over a long period of time and put pressure on the joints (more so at elbows). I see no reason to replace the PVC unless it keeps happening every 20 feet.
 

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