Thanks Robert - I can show you what I do to make the frames - but I do have a very hard time with them - My miter saw is not cutting a true 45:BangHead: and that makes it even harder - plus I do need a jointer so that I can get my edges true - I have been running them through the planner but I bellieve that is not a trrue edge either:BangHead: I also need a better way of clamping them so that I can get my joints tighter but besides all of that I enjoy building them - hope to get together one day and frame someone - oh I mean something:rotflm: