Electrical question for dummies...

[DaveO]

With the anticipation of a new jointer and the need for another 220v outlet I went looking in my shop's breaker box. I am already wired for 220, but have only one receptacle that I know of. I am assuming that a 220 receptacle will look different that 110? In my box I have 3 double pole breakers. One is labeled as 60A (welder) and it runs my TS. I have another 30A (labeled Air Comp) and a 60A (unlabeled). There is a junction box on the other end of 60A (welder) run that has a large guage single black, white and copper ground wire terminating in it. Is it safe to assume that because it is in the same conduit as the Welder receptacle that it is also 220v/60a??? I don't have a multi-meter.
Anybody near by Clayton with a clue want to take a look and help me figure this out. I don't like electricity...I have a very healthy fear of it.
Dave

 

[TracyP]

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/avoiding-electric-shocks.html

Sorry, couldn't help myself:rotflm:

 

[wdkits1]

Hi Dave
The best place to start is to take the panel cover off and see if there are wires attached to the unmarked breaker .If there aren't then you can use that space for the correct sized breaker for your new jointer. If there are wires hooked to the breaker you will need to follow them and see if they do go any place. They may just terminate in the J box in which case you could use them for your new jointer or disconnect them from the breaker and run new wire. Whatever you do make sure that you look at the nameplate rating on the new jointer and size the breaker according to what it requires. Over-sized beaker is not good,over-sized wire is OK

Mike

 

[Phil S]

I have a meter and would be willing to travel out to help you sort this out. I have some open time tommorrow morning if that works for you. Phil

 

[RayH]

PM on the way.

 

[scsmith42]

Hi Dave
The best place to start is to take the panel cover off and see if there are wires attached to the unmarked breaker .If there aren't then you can use that space for the correct sized breaker for your new jointer. If there are wires hooked to the breaker you will need to follow them and see if they do go any place. They may just terminate in the J box in which case you could use them for your new jointer or disconnect them from the breaker and run new wire. Whatever you do make sure that you look at the nameplate rating on the new jointer and size the breaker according to what it requires. Over-sized beaker is not good,over-sized wire is OK

Mike

+1

Dave, I'm also glad to ride out and bring a meter.

To answer your questions, yes 240V receptacles look different than 120V ones. Most of what you'd probably need would be either 20A or 30A 240 circuits, depending upon the HP of the motors.

I like the twist lock type of outlets for my woodworking 240V needs, and they are readily available at the BORG's. In my new shop I'm using NEMA L6-20's and L6-30's for my 240V single phase equipment, and NEMA L14-20's for my twist loc 120V equipment (ceiling mounted receptacles).

I prefer 240V power over 120V, and when I have a choice I will wire for 240 every time.

 

[DaveO]

Scott no need to make a special trip, although I really appreciate yours and many others offers to check it out. When we bring the jointer home you can have a look. I am sure I have the power, based on the breakers I have it's a 300a panel, I just don't know if all are live or where they might go. That is what I will need help with.
Thanks,
Dave

 

[JackLeg]

DaveO: I CAN"T believe there's finally a subject you don't know something about! I'm encouraged!!

:rotflm:

You're right to respect the "juice" but don't fear it. It's our greatest, cheapest servant. If your panel has a 100A main and you've got open breaker slots, you can probably add another 220v circuit without any problems. Not many home shops that I know of will exceed the limits of this panel. Wish I was closer, but, Scott can sure help you.

Good luck, Pard.

:wwink:

 

[McRabbet]

Dave,

I agree with Scott's recommendation on receptacles -- I use L6-20 and L6-30 Twist Lock's for my tablesaw, jointer, Drum Sander and shaper circuits so the plugs are secured in the receptacles. Since my tablesaw and jointer are close together but never get used at the same time, I have two receptacles on one 20 Amp circuit so both can be plugged in at once. That saved about $50 in #10 wire in my case. You could do the same with your tablesaw circuit and extend wire (you must use the same size wire in that extension segment) from its receptacle to a new receptacle for your jointer (IIRC, your jointer is next to your tablesaw, so this would be fairly easy). I'm not an electrician, but I wired my entire shop.

 

[FredP]

With the anticipation of a new jointer and the need for another 220v outlet I went looking in my shop's breaker box. I am already wired for 220, but have only one receptacle that I know of. I am assuming that a 220 receptacle will look different that 110? In my box I have 3 double pole breakers. One is labeled as 60A (welder) and it runs my TS. I have another 30A (labeled Air Comp) and a 60A (unlabeled). There is a junction box on the other end of 60A (welder) run that has a large guage single black, white and copper ground wire terminating in it. Is it safe to assume that because it is in the same conduit as the Welder receptacle that it is also 220v/60a??? I don't have a multi-meter.
Anybody near by Clayton with a clue want to take a look and help me figure this out. I don't like electricity...I have a very healthy fear of it.
Dave

60AMP to the TS????? too large a breaker is cause for concern. I'm no electrician but I believe too large a breaker is a fire hazard. I have a dummies book if you would like to borrow it. sounds like you have plenty of power but may need to redistribute some of it. I wired my shop and could come by and help with yours but I'm sure there are more qualified help closer than I.

 

[Bas]

The breaker protects the wire, not the table saw that's plugged into the circuit. A 60A breaker is only a fire hazard if the wire isn't rated to handle 60A (or if you smoke a cigarette too close to the breaker :rolf

I suppose "throttling" the circuit with a 30A breaker could offer some protection in case the motor develops a leak and the smoke escapes, but I doubt it's really useful. The thing will burn up and break the circuit before the amperage gets that high.

It certainly can't hurt to verify the wiring can handle 60A. The previous owners of my house had a problem with the breaker tripping in the basement because the fridge had a loose wire. This caused periodic spikes. To "fix" it, they replaced the 15A breaker with a 30A breaker.

 

[scsmith42]

The breaker protects the wire, not the table saw that's plugged into the circuit. A 60A breaker is only a fire hazard if the wire isn't rated to handle 60A (or if you smoke a cigarette too close to the breaker :rolf

Yes, but.... :gar-La;

The wiring inside the table saw is probably not sized for a 60A breaker... more likely a 20A or 30A one.

 

[FredP]

Yes, but.... :gar-La;

The wiring inside the table saw is probably not sized for a 60A breaker... more likely a 20A or 30A one.

eggzakarry!:rotflm: I am a firm believer that the breaker wiring and equipment should all be in compliance with code. that way you get some protection for the whole circuit. :icon_thum the breaker will be able to do it's job in a properly wired system.

 

[NCPete]

Dave, I can STRONGLY encourage you not to cross the ground to the mains in your panel. other than that, all good advice.

I think this afternoon, I am going to go make some space in my shop, by destroying some otherwise perfectly good wood, so that I may, some day, fit another piece of machinery inside, which would, of course, require additional wiring. IN SPITE of a bad previous experience, I will do the wiring myself. I just won't make the same mistake again, I also won't do any work when I don't have sufficient natural lighting available.

 

[DaveD]

More than you ever wanted to know about plug and receptacle configurations.
http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/web/outlet/quailplug.html

 

[scsmith42]

More than you ever wanted to know about plug and receptacle configurations.
http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/web/outlet/quailplug.html

Dave, that's a great chart and resource! The only thing that I would add to it is to compare what's listed on the chart with what's commonly stocked at the local BORG's or electrical supply houses. Many of the styles listed on the chart are not commonly found locally, and thus could be more expensive as well as more difficult to obtain.

 

[Gofor]

Scott no need to make a special trip, although I really appreciate yours and many others offers to check it out. When we bring the jointer home you can have a look. I am sure I have the power, based on the breakers I have it's a 300a panel, I just don't know if all are live or where they might go. That is what I will need help with.
Thanks,
Dave

Some thoughts:

Please do not go with the panel rating as a gauge of power availability. My primary subpanel is 200 amp max rated. If I add up the circuit breakers, it totals almost 500. And yes, its to what the code enforcement blessed when the house was built and the plans were design reviewed. That is because the actual load attached (and the main panel available power) is much less than the circuit breakers added up. NEC gives formulas for figuring load and assume not every circuit is maxed and being used at the same time.

Also, IF you are relying on the circuit breaker to protect your equipment (I say IF because some equipment comes with overload protection) it is unwise to plug the equipment into a circuit that exceeds its capacity and may void the warrantee.

Best to run a circuit that is sized to protect the equipment and supplies what the equipment demands.

DaveO: My hats off to you for knowing what you don't know, and searching for a knowledgeable person to help you.:thumbs_up

Go

 

[sapwood]

More than you ever wanted to know about plug and receptacle configurations.
http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/web/outlet/quailplug.html

Another :icon_thum on the link!
Great info!!!

Thanks,
Roger