Bandsaw Manufacturing Defect

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manfre

New User
Manfre
I'm really not having good luck with power tools. First the Triton router breaks while it still has that new tool smell. Now my Ridgid bandsaw broke while tensioning the blade to start cutting blanks to turn. I bought it in Feb this year. I'm not a metallurgist, but I'm pretty sure there shouldn't be air pockets in the metal. :kamahlitu

I'm wondering if I should replace it with an aftermarket upgrade, or just sell the bandsaw once it is fixed and buy a better quality one. I haven't used it that much, but I've already come to the conclusion that I wouldn't buy it again.

2011-07-17_19-11-20_894.jpg


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FtgNaOYfw9o/TiNup7KUXMI/AAAAAAAABJU/_CYySTxincY/s1280/2011-07-17_19-21-54_843.jpg
 

ehpoole

Moderator
Ethan
The air pockets are typical of die cast parts. If you can replace it with an aftermarket part made either from heavy gauge sheet metal or milled steel then that would be the best route.

Unless you wish to make a significant upgrade (e.g. a much larger or higher-end bandsaw) you are likely to find many other 14" (and smaller) bandsaws to be of similar construction. Replacing the broken part with a quality aftermarket replacement will leave you with a better quality saw than the one you originally purchased.

From my recollection, when I was studying my bandsaw books before I purchased my bandsaw (Rikon 10-345) the failure you experienced is pretty typical for the traditional cast-iron body 14" bandsaws on the market nowadays.
 

dhern

New User
Hoss
Had the same problem 2 weeks. I have a Delta 14 inch. I think most of these brands use the same parts.
 

manfre

New User
Manfre
One of my main motivations for buying the ridgid was due to decent reviews and getting it at a huge discount during the last clearance sale. If I decide to replace the saw, it would be to a larger saw (17-19" w/ 2+ HP) in the $1000-1500 (+ shipping) range.
 

junquecol

Bruce
Senior User
Contact OWT (Ridgid) about getting a replacement part. You should still be under warranty, and hopefully, you did the "Lifetime Service Agreement" paper work. The tracking arm has always been the "weakest link" on 14" bandsaws. Iturra Design sells both Delta and Iturra Design tracking arms to fit a Delta. My catalog is 8 years old, so he may now have others available.
 

manfre

New User
Manfre
Contact OWT (Ridgid) about getting a replacement part. You should still be under warranty, and hopefully, you did the "Lifetime Service Agreement" paper work. The tracking arm has always been the "weakest link" on 14" bandsaws. Iturra Design sells both Delta and Iturra Design tracking arms to fit a Delta. My catalog is 8 years old, so he may now have others available.
Already sent a "repair/service inquiry" through the support website. I'm really good about registering for warranties when they let me do it online.

I might try welding the broken part so I have a spare.
 

SteveHall

Steve
Corporate Member
Same part broke on my ancient 14" Jet last year, replaced it with the part from Ridgid which was the exact match.
 

ehpoole

Moderator
Ethan
Good luck on welding that cheap pot metal.

I concur. You would do just about as well to superglue or epoxy the part as to try and weld it (and to be clear, I am not recommending such!).

If you *really* want to keep it as a spare, you'd be better served learning how to melt it back down and recast it. Die cast parts are very strong and resist bending forces quite well until the moment you reach their maximum peak load at which point they simply shatter without warning -- they do not bend or deform the way more malleable/ductile metal alloys would. There is no piecing them back together in such a way as to allow them to withstand the same stresses as the original casting.

Personally, I would not even bother with a warranty replacement as their replacement part will likely be of identical die cast construction and will eventually fail again at some future date. Replace it with a better quality aftermarket part and take comfort in the knowledge you have just made a wise investment in an otherwise perfectly good tool.

Just my $0.02.
 

eyekode

New User
Salem
When I took my 1950's Delta 14" apart I was shocked at how cheap this piece was!. So this isn't a case of "they don't make'em like the used to" :).
Salem
 

manfre

New User
Manfre
I'm not really much of a welder and when I typed "I might try welding...", that would really translate to "Dad, can you fix this for me". :gar-Bi You're all right though, probably not worth the effort.

ehpoole said:
Personally, I would not even bother with a warranty replacement...

If the warranty replacement is free to the customer, then there is little reason not to go through the motions, even if the replacement part will sit on a shelf unused. It sends a very clear signal (financial penalty) to the company that they need to improve quality. Given enough warranty replacements, the cost of the part, shipping and reputation will eventually require the company to make the necessary improvements.

If I decide to keep the saw, then I'll definitely upgrade this weak point. If I end up selling the saw, the money spent on the aftermarket part would not translate in to a higher resale price.

junquecol said:
In 2003, the Delta part from Iturra was only $15.

Was that the same exact part and quality construction as the original that broke? I checked their 2010 catalog and the prices have gone up and it appears they now also make their own "improved" replacement part out of steel (~$50).
 

CDPeters

Master of None
Chris
Manfre -

Looking at the referenced picture, it looks like what broke is a gusset on the bracket for the tracking adjustment rod? If that is the case, there really shouldn't be significant stress placed on that area during tensioning - my thought is maybe there is an interference and it caught on something it shouldn't have - the housing maybe? Anyway, just thought it might be prudent to identify the root cause of the failure and eliminate it so it doesn't happen again.

Or maybe I'm looking at the picture all wrong. Wouldn't be the first time, nor will it be the last :gar-La;

C.
 

kooshball

David
Corporate Member
One of my main motivations for buying the ridgid was due to decent reviews and getting it at a huge discount during the last clearance sale. If I decide to replace the saw, it would be to a larger saw (17-19" w/ 2+ HP) in the $1000-1500 (+ shipping) range.

I am with you on this. I picked up a Delta 14" bandsaw for next to nothing from Lowe's in a similar sale situation. I am glad that I have the saw b/c it has showed me exactly what I want in a new saw through its shortcomings.

I am going to wait for something to break or for the need to resaw crazy thick material but if it breaks tomorrow I am going big!
 

Vetteman9956

New User
Brad
Dang Kid you are sure ruff on those tools.:gar-La; Gotta treat them like a fine woman!! Secret is buy old tools that were made in the US or even Taiwan before the quality became an after thought. Rigid used to be made by Emerson Electric in St. Louis. No matter how hard I have tried, I can't break the castings on my Unisaw.
 

ehpoole

Moderator
Ethan
Manfre -

Looking at the referenced picture, it looks like what broke is a gusset on the bracket for the tracking adjustment rod? If that is the case, there really shouldn't be significant stress placed on that area during tensioning ...

The piece that broke is part of the tracking adjustment mechanism. While you are correct that there would not be much stress placed on the part in an absolutely ideal world -- the wheels are perfectly coplanar, the blade is riding perfectly centered, the blade is the correct length, and (most importantly of all) the blade was able to run without any tension aplied to it -- the world is not exactly perfect or ideal. The more tension the user places on the blade the more the upper wheel will want to pivot downward and inward directly into the tracking knob -- that's why you need tension to effectively adjust tracking -- placing ever greater stress on the very part that snapped. That the part was diecast with as much reinforcement as it had is a good indication that a good deal of force will be applied to the part in normal service.

Sadly, manufacturers seldom 'over-engineer' diecastings -- they are pretty much optimized to produce a part for the bare minimum of cost and fuss despite their inherently brittle nature. I hate seing die-cast parts used in high-stress applications nearly as much as I hate seeing plastic used for the same (and I really hate the use of plastic 'springs' in otherwise perfectly good tools)!

If the user installs a large blade, say 3/4" on a 14" bandsaw, -- especially one a bit shorter than it ought to be -- and then dials up the tension until the factory tension gauge says its tensioned (at which point the over-short blade is now greatly overtensioned), then a considerable amount of force would have been applied to the tracking 'paddle' that counters the wheel's natural tendency to collapse inward and downward about its pivot/hinge. Many factory tension gauges assume that the installed blade will be at, or very near, the recommended length. Unfortunately, reality assures that some blades will be significantly shorter or longer than the recommended length which will result in the factory tension guage reading (inversely) either over-tensioned or under-tensioned even for a perfectly tensioned blade. That is why the factory tension gauge should only ever be considered a 'suggestion'.

I don't know that the above scenerio caused the OP's disaster, but it is a very likely scenerio by which a bandsaw owner can damage the bandsaw in the very same way. Ideally, the manufacturer should have over-engineered the assembly to survive overtensioning upto and beyond the point at which the tensioning spring is fully compressed. Unfortunately, they know that if it was a cheap bandsaw (relatively speaking) many non-mechanically minded buyers will simply blame themselves and purchase a new tool rather than trying to repair the damaged part (which is well beyond their mechanical abilities) -- so it becomes an opportunity to sell them another saw more often than it is a repair.

Rant: It just really irks me how common poor engineering and manufacturing has become. It's like my new air compressor (Kobalt, really ABAC iirc) -- a reasonably decent 3-cylinder single-stage design -- but the idiot assembly person (chinese made pump) assembled the bearing carrier plate with a gasket torn at 3 points (oil everywhere!) but continued to bolt it together despite having thoroughly mutilated the gasket! It takes *hours* to break the unit down to where you can remove the carrier plate and draft out and cut a new (and rather complex) replacement gasket just to fix a mistake that should never have been made in the first place and could have been corrected in mere seconds at the time of assembly. I could not help but wonder, after seeing how many tools I had laying about, whether the average air compressor purchaser would even own the full complement of tools -- much less possess the knowledge and experience -- to make that same repair. And it really is more of a repair than a return item at over 500lbs and nearly 7ft tall! That and the fact that unless an item is beyond reasonable repair I would rather repair the known defects in an otherwise properly functioning device than gamble on the unknown with an exchange!

...Ok, now back to the topic...

Just a few more cents -- or possibly yuans -- worth of opinion... :nah:

Thanks for listening!
 

CDPeters

Master of None
Chris
Thanks for the insights, Ethan - now that I think it through, your explanation is spot on.

RE the factory tension "indicator"... for the very reasons you describe, I pay it no attention whatsoever. I tension using the "flutter" method which has served me very well (so far).

And I quite agree with you, rant wise :qleft7:

C.
 

manfre

New User
Manfre
Gotta treat them like a fine woman!!

...but wine would rust the table.


I was (probably over) tensioning a Carter 1/2" 3 TPI blade; I tension based upon deflection so it's basically a barely educated guess. The guage on the back was sitting a little over the 1/2 mark when it snapped. The bandsaw claims it will support a 3/4" blade, but I'm glad I read the advise of not using a 3/4" blade on a 14" bandsaw.

It really annoys me how many manufacturers do build what should be a permanent items as if they were a consumable. They're also risking the consumer, who now needs to replace a tool looking for a different brand.
 
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