Anybody know where to get true hand-forget iron holdfasts? I'm planning a woodworking bench and would like to know where to find these before I start boring holes everywhere. -Thanks!
Wrought Iron Holdfast Source
- Thread starter jebbylawless
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Check this out - Reviews and sources:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/The_Mystery_of_Holdfasts/
pete
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/The_Mystery_of_Holdfasts/
pete
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/...MS-HOLDFAST.XX&Category_Code=&Search=holdfast
Or, log onto toolsforworkingwood.com and do a search for "holdfast".
Or, log onto toolsforworkingwood.com and do a search for "holdfast".
I saw some at Woodworker's Supply in Graham yesterday. Not sure of the quality, but they had two different sizes.
Bill Clemmons
Bill Clemmons
I loved Popular Woodworking's dedication to hand tools and traditional methods (not total dedication, but they always included an article or two), but...
Does the picture in that article:
bother anyone else as much as it does me?
They used a hammer with a steel head and steel shaft and say the little cast one "self destructed". I beg to differ - they destroyed it. I absolutely agree that the hand made ones are better, but I have some cheap cast ones that have help up fine for years. I only use a wooden mallet to strike them. Even those hand made ones will begin to mushroom, weaken and eventually break if you pound them with a steel hammer.
My dad's a hobby blacksmith and a member of the local ABANA group (Artist Blacksmith's Association of North America). I don't think he's ever tried a holdfast, but I bet he'd know someone local who has, or would with the right incentive. PM me if you're interested and I'll check with him.
Yes... What JimmyC said....
His name it Peter Ross.... He was the Master Blacksmith at Colonial Williamsburg but now he is on this own teaching and making stuff....
You can get them from Bill Anderson for $75 ech.....
and they look like the one's Roy has in his shows...
I bet that is where Roy got his from is Peter Ross also....
His name it Peter Ross.... He was the Master Blacksmith at Colonial Williamsburg but now he is on this own teaching and making stuff....
You can get them from Bill Anderson for $75 ech.....
and they look like the one's Roy has in his shows...
I bet that is where Roy got his from is Peter Ross also....
I got a couple off-shore ones from Klingspor's that failed after only a couple uses, and I did use a wooden mallet. (in a pine substrate to boot). Heads snapped right off: Cast, not forged, which was evident from the open grain of the broken metal.
Thanks Jimmy for the link to at least one good source.
Go
Thanks Jimmy for the link to at least one good source.
Go
Why are cast things weaker? This is not wood; there isn't grain, or if there is, it isn't going to just magically line up lengthwise when you pour it in a mold. It seems like bent steel would be weaker; the outside is stretched and the inside compressed. But that doesn't match with experience. Why is that?
Actually, there is grain in iron/steel.
The cast ones don't use the strength of the grain.
I think of it like MDF vs. riven straight grain oak. If you try to bend both, you'd get wildly different results.
I have the Tools for Working Wood holdfasts, love them. IMHO, they are the best value out there.
But, ones made by a blacksmith are equally if not exceedingly awesome.
Avoid anything else, they are going to fail in short order. This is one of those rare cases where skimping just won't work out.
Jim
The cast ones don't use the strength of the grain.
I think of it like MDF vs. riven straight grain oak. If you try to bend both, you'd get wildly different results.
I have the Tools for Working Wood holdfasts, love them. IMHO, they are the best value out there.
But, ones made by a blacksmith are equally if not exceedingly awesome.
Avoid anything else, they are going to fail in short order. This is one of those rare cases where skimping just won't work out.
Jim
Peter Ross, noted whitesmith and blacksmith from Silk Hope, NC (formerly the head blacksmith of Williamsburg for 25 years) makes true forged cast irion holdfasts. No comparison with the pot metal ones you see in the catalogs (including Tools for Working Wood). I have several myself and am the "official" retail outlet for his holdfasts (I do not make anything off this, it's just a way to help Peter out). The holdfasts are $75 each, and a bargain considering their traditional styling etc. Youi just need to indicate the size of hole youi will put the holdfasts in, and how much reach you want and how tall you want them to be. There are some pretty standard dimensions and its probably easier to just so with that. Generally I think the holes are 3/4" or so.
Jim,
I can go with your MDF versus riven grain but not with bending both; you are bending the grain but with the MDF it would be more like scrolling the pattern out of a sheet. The cast ones have thick corners; a small triangle. When I have broken steel, it does seem to have something of a preferred orientation, but I think it is a stretch to compare it to wood grain.
I do agree that it seems like the forged ones are better, but it still isn't obvious to me why.
I misspoke-they are not cast iron but are wrought iron. There is considerable grain structure in wrought iron, making the tool flexible and resilient to the mallet. I have used the TFWW holdfasts (Roy equiped the school with these unfortunately), and they are clearly inferior. The main issue is that the holdfasts are bent in a curve which means striking it to release the work is sometimes a problem if you are gripping something thin (3/4"). The forged ones have a cool right angle shape at the head which makes releasing the work no problem. I can wack Peter's with all my strength (I use a wheelwrights mallet) and then lift up my benchtop (4" thick maple) (well....maybe when I was 18!)
I asked my dad about holdfasts and wrought iron vs steel. As I understood him, wrought iron includes a silicate slag that gives it the grain structure mentioned above, which is similar to wood, and as already mentioned springier and less brittle than steel, so much better for holdfasts. It's also expensive, so most guys don't use it much.
Also, apparently Peter Ross is about as noted as it gets - when European museums need a reproduction 18th-century hinge or something, they call him. $75 for a superior tool from an artisan of his quality does seem like a bargain. Wish I had a real bench to use one in.
Also, apparently Peter Ross is about as noted as it gets - when European museums need a reproduction 18th-century hinge or something, they call him. $75 for a superior tool from an artisan of his quality does seem like a bargain. Wish I had a real bench to use one in.
Jeff,
Look at this link.... down toward bottom... Holdfast. These are the Peter Ross Holdfasts we been talking about.
Thanks for the wealth of info guys! Now I just need to make a few calls and balance my checkbook 
Holdfasts are a good project for a blacksmith in training. My 15yr old son is currently learning how to blacksmith from a local not-for-profit forge that was created by some from Colonial Williamsburg. PWW has a good article that gives you the necessary angles to make a decent one. Here are a couple different size ones my son made for me.
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