Woodcraft discount

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thesource

New User
Rick
I agree Ed. Woodcraft really stepped up for the shop crawl.
Matt, the reason that the products are excluded, is that the manufacturer prohibits us from advertising prices lower than the MAP. It's to protect us from ourselves.
How much do you think a retailer should lose to make you feel better?
 

Splint Eastwood

New User
Matt
I agree Ed. Woodcraft really stepped up for the shop crawl.
Matt, the reason that the products are excluded, is that the manufacturer prohibits us from advertising prices lower than the MAP. It's to protect us from ourselves.
How much do you think a retailer should lose to make you feel better?[/QUOTE]

Missed point again! ( he wrote with amazement)

Im not demanding anything. (expressing opinion of whether we should be grateful, happy, etc..)

I can find better deals all day long without no stinking 10% discount on paper clips, pencils, etc...

Plus, I hardly think, retailers would go outta business by giving a discount. Given whatever markups they have.... 50% , 100%? Whatever....

Please don't confuse issues ( Take off your Evelyn Wood Speed reading glasses, and put on your Critical thinking caps instead) he said, wondering if this is getting through.

Your comments/opinions/thoughts/etc.... sound very emotional (loyalty to one manager, as opposed to a Corp Retailer). This is fine...

But please don't misconstrue my comments/opinions as being snide or insincere.

Thanks again,

Man How I love this Site......:gar-Bi

Matt
 

NC_Horn

Duane
Corporate Member
I am another one that hopes this goes thru. If not - THANKS for the effort. Lest we forget, Woodcraft is a national chain - but does have local owners. Before the Greensboro store opened, the owner of the Raleigh store lived in the Gibsonville area. I also lived in Gibsonville at the time and on more than one occasion, I have called to the store in Raleigh and had items hand delivered to me in Gibsonville. I like Woodcraft, the layout of the store and being able to put hands on what I am wanting to look at. That is one of my gripes with Woodworkers Supply - the layout of their store. And their online/over the phone order is almost always next day because they are just up the road in West By God VA. Maybe I am getting a little long winded on this - but again - I do like to shop local and any discount would be appreciated.

Thanks again,

Duane
 

nelsone

New User
Ed
I agree Ed. Woodcraft really stepped up for the shop crawl.
Matt, the reason that the products are excluded, is that the manufacturer prohibits us from advertising prices lower than the MAP. It's to protect us from ourselves.
How much do you think a retailer should lose to make you feel better?[/QUOTE]

Missed point again! ( he wrote with amazement)

Im not demanding anything. (expressing opinion of whether we should be grateful, happy, etc..)Why shouldn't we be happy or grateful for being given something?

I can find better deals all day long without no stinking 10% discount on paper clips, pencils, etc...Your, right 10% is nothing more than a gesture, but it is a nice one!

Plus, I hardly think, retailers would go outta business by giving a discount. Given whatever markups they have.... 50% , 100%? Whatever....

Please don't confuse issues ( Take off your Evelyn Wood Speed reading glasses, and put on your Critical thinking caps instead) he said, wondering if this is getting through.

Your comments/opinions/thoughts/etc.... sound very emotional (loyalty to one manager, as opposed to a Corp Retailer). This is fine...Perhaps you don't realize that your reply in this post is to a retailer that is a very big supporter of NCWW.

But please don't misconstrue my comments/opinions as being snide or insincere.

Thanks again,

Man How I love this Site......:gar-Bi

Matt
 

thesource

New User
Rick
The mystery margines are between 5 and 35%.
Only the online stores will survive if you don't allow a fair profit.
Do you want service or just the lowest price?
 

WoodWrangler

New User
Jeremy
Good luck, Mike. I fished this pond for a good while with the guys at the WC in Matthews. They were open to the idea, as long as it could be controlled and not everyone who walked in expected the discount ... however, nothing more ever came to it (and now I've moved away)

If corp gives in, it will likely be a web site discount ... which when you shop there, you actually harm the local brick and mortar stores ... not good. It's difficult either way!
 

Splint Eastwood

New User
Matt
Im not demanding anything. (expressing opinion of whether we should be grateful, happy, etc..)Why shouldn't we be happy or grateful for being given something? / not suggesting you shouldn't

I can find better deals all day long without no stinking 10% discount on paper clips, pencils, etc...Your, right 10% is nothing more than a gesture, but it is a nice one! / A dollars and cents business decision by a Corporate Retailer, nice has nothing to do with it.

Plus, I hardly think, retailers would go outta business by giving a discount. Given whatever markups they have.... 50% , 100%? Whatever....

Please don't confuse issues ( Take off your Evelyn Wood Speed reading glasses, and put on your Critical thinking caps instead) he said, wondering if this is getting through.

Your comments/opinions/thoughts/etc.... sound very emotional (loyalty to one manager, as opposed to a Corp Retailer). This is fine...Perhaps you don't realize that your reply in this post is to a retailer that is a very big supporter of NCWW. / Placing a banner ad, again, is a dollars and cents business decision, not necessarily a supporter (as described by Klingspor's supporters of their support).

But thanks Ed, it's only through discussion (emotional is ok) with respect is all I ever ask,

Appreciated,
Matt
 

Splint Eastwood

New User
Matt
The mystery margines are between 5 and 35%.
Only the online stores will survive if you don't allow a fair profit.
Do you want service or just the lowest price?


If these, "mystery margins" ( which should be MARKUP) big difference (Accountant's head here)

are between 5 & 35%, they shoulda been outta business a long time ago. They are probably closer to the 50% to 100% as originally posited by my earlier posts.

How could a Retailer show items being 1/2 off and still make money? it's because they are higher.

Yes, not all items have as large a markups as others, but, now I digress.

As far as Service........ let's not go there.... at least not at this hour :gar-La;

Thanks again,

Loving it.
Matt
 

Splint Eastwood

New User
Matt
Good luck, Mike. I fished this pond for a good while with the guys at the WC in Matthews. They were open to the idea, as long as it could be controlled and not everyone who walked in expected the discount ... however, nothing more ever came to it (and now I've moved away)

If corp gives in, it will likely be a web site discount ... which when you shop there, you actually harm the local brick and mortar stores ... not good. It's difficult either way!

Aha! I knew it!

Like Ground Hog Day with Wood!

Green Jello on Thursdays! Green Jello on Thursdays. Green Jello on Thursdays :gar-La;

Oh well, Ive been reduced to Babel

Thanks,
Matt
 

nelsone

New User
Ed
Matt, you have an interesting way of throwing cold water on what most people would consider something nice. Regardless of your opinions, I hope Mike continues to pursue this even if it doesn't result in the membership gaining from it. I also hope responses like yours don't prevent someone else from trying to do something nice for the group.

Have a nice evening!
 

junquecol

Bruce
Senior User
I, for one don't understand the thought pattern here. It seems that everyone wants something for nothing. No business owes ANYONE a discount! They are in business to make a profit. Woodcraft has furnished some nice things to NC Woodworker over the years. Through NC Woodworker, I'm not DQ at Klingspor (not a member), but through TWA, I am. Klingspor allows TWA to use their place for our meetings. Normally we meet on the third Tuesday, but with an out of town speaker we meet on Friday. They are more than happy to take care of us. Each month, Woodcraft gives TWA a $25 gift certificate, which we raffle off to pay for the refreshments at our meetings. So Klingspor gives us a place to meet, and Woodcraft pays for the refreshments. Care to guess which one is worth more? Quit your belly aching and be happy that we have wood working stores close by.
 

manfre

New User
Manfre
@Matt

haters-gonna-hate.gif
 

WoodWrangler

New User
Jeremy
Like Ground Hog Day with Wood!

:wink_smil Yeah, in a way. The discussion took place, but I never closed the deal :slap: Maybe someone can follow-up with Dennis at WC Matthews to see what could be worked out. If you do, you'll want to remind him of the DQ program and how it works (thus a limited list of active members)

Like mentioned in this thread, it is a dollar & cents decision ... but also a marketing decision. Woodcraft, Klingspor, and The Woodworking Source have all offered their own support in different ways to the NCWW members over time ... and to the local clubs. The last shop crawl that I helped coordinate in Charlotte received a lot of gracious "freebies" from Woodcraft, not to mention 10% at The Woodworking Source & tons of notepads (which I still use). Klingspor has been gracious in many ways to, from discounts to sponsorships to raffle donations.

In the end, a discount is good ... but what goes further (at least for me) is the entire package (meaning support in various creative ways).

One thing I do know ... I want the brick and mortar stores to stay around so I have a place to go and touch the things I want before I buy them!:icon_thum
 

Splint Eastwood

New User
Matt
Like mentioned in this thread, it is a dollar & cents decision ... but also a marketing decision. Woodcraft, Klingspor, and The Woodworking Source have all offered their own support in different ways to the NCWW members over time ... and to the local clubs. The last shop crawl that I helped coordinate in Charlotte received a lot of gracious "freebies" from Woodcraft, not to mention 10% at The Woodworking Source & tons of notepads (which I still use). Klingspor has been gracious in many ways to, from discounts to sponsorships to raffle donations.

In the end, a discount is good ... but what goes further (at least for me) is the entire package (meaning support in various creative ways).

J.

Thanks for this. It's obvious, the level of support in Charlotte than that of Raleigh's is subject to various factors. Hence, the difference in perspective from the same Company (City to City).

The intelligent way you articulate your points, helps me to see this at a higher level, I appreciate this.

As far as a comprehensive package, Im totally on board with this. I was calling it: Community based Retailing, as opposed to some contrived "Marketing" strategy.

My comparisons were based on Klingpspor's (Raleigh) v WC (Raleigh) experiences.

If you meant, consistency in application (City to City) or Store to Store, Im in total agreement with this. Especially with the Community based theory.

Thanks again,

Matt
 

BrianInChatham

New User
Brian
I always enjoys finding a good bargain and am grateful for any discount a retailer may offer me, but my decision on where to shop is going to be based far more on quality and service than on whether I'm offered a discount (unless it's a really big one, then I can be bought :D) Unfortunately I think many of us have become so jaded that we tend to view all retailers with quite a bit of cynicism and even distrust. There's a tendency to assume retail pricing is just a shell game where the prices of products are artificially inflated so they can then be offered at a "discount" in order to create a sense of value. While this may sometimes be the case, there are a lot of other factors that must be taken into account when looking at retail pricing vs. online. Profit margins for retailers who now must compete with online sales are much slimmer than in days past.

A few things to consider..

A brick and mortar specialty shop such as Woodcraft has to maintain a large and diverse inventory of items to be competitive and meet the needs of their customers. Looking at the plethora of items these shops carry, how rapidly does that stuff turn over? Consumables sure, but how about all those knobs and handles, specialty router bits, etc? All of that inventory is already paid for by the retailer, but due to the nature of the shop a lot of it is going to have very low turnaround. On the other hand, an internet retailer may stock everyday items, but for the less common items will only order on an as-needed basis, or more often simply have it drop shipped to the customer. It's easy to look at retail prices vs. online and think "I'm getting ripped off", but all the extra overhead carried by the retailer has to be paid for somehow...

also-

That 10% discount DOES NOT mean the retailer is making 10% less profit on the sale. Their costs are just the same, discount or not. So- say there's a 50% markup. Out of that 50% the business has to pay rent, payroll, etc. Let's say that overhead accounts for 1\2 of the markup, which leaves 25% of the total sale price as profit to the company. Well, 100% of any discount you are given comes out of that last 25%, so that 10% discount he just gave you was actually 40% of his profit. I wonder how any of those customers would feel if they were asked to take a 40% pay cut?

I have no idea what their numbers really are- mine are purely arbitrary- but I do know my business very well. So- a real world example. I'm a dentist. Everyone knows dentists are rich, right? Well, over the 7 years prior to selling, my practice ran at about 75% overhead (just like the numbers above). Since I wasn't a retail establishment I didn't have "sales" per se, but I did have things like discounts to patients, PPO insurance deductions, bad debt, etc. 100% of this came out of the 25% that was supposed to be my paycheck. So- that 10% discount I just gave you was actually 40% of the paycheck I was supposed to receive for it.

So guess what? I'm not rich, and I very much doubt the owners of WoodCraft are either. I know I'm not totally comparing apples to apples here, but I think it illustrates my point that that small discount (10% isn't much to ask for, now is it?) has a MUCH larger impact on the business than you would think at first glance. I actually don't care much for WoodCraft, but I do respect their decision not to offer a discount for NCWW members- I doubt it's based on any sort of greed or indifference to our community, it's simply what they need to do to maintain their business model. I make a lot of purchases online, but I also make an effort to support local businesses, because if I don't then they won't be there to support me when I need them either.

Gads...maybe I should write novels.
 

Splint Eastwood

New User
Matt
BrianInChatham;350722 Maybe I should write novels....[/QUOTE said:
Brian,

I'm a short story guy myself.....:gar-Bi, but I couldn't put this one down!

A page turner if ever there was one!

Great points. As an accountant, I like the part about 10% translating to 40%, well ... I needed a tissue, quite frankly.:eusa_clap Sheer Poetry.

Seriously,
Excellently written, thanks for yet another great perspective. Especially from a Medical Professional.

M
 

Douglas Robinson

Doug Robinson
Corporate Member
Perhaps I am confused, but it seems to me that a lot of this discussion is conjecture. MikeH has inquired with WC about a member discount. Some may have inquired before. Something may come of this (or not).

Both stores have been good to us. It is nice to have stores like this in our areas.

Having said that, on WC can determine if there is vslue for them to offer anything. What factors are important to them is their concern. What else is there to discuss? If anyone from WC would like to contact a BoD member to get information, we are available. I appreciate the initiative that has been taken by MikeH!

I really see very little to be gained in debate (if that is even the right word here). If nothing comes of it, so be it. If something does then great. These companies need to make a profit to stay in business. I do not begrudge them that. So be happy if we get anything.

Doug
 

manfre

New User
Manfre
Not sure what this means......but

I guess...this thread has deteriorated a bit.

Maybe I should take some Pepto for my belly ache. Didn't even know people used this arcane term anymore.

m
Doesn't really mean much of anything. The thread did seem to deteriorate a bit. I found this image a few days ago and everytime I see it I giggle a little. Just lightening the mood.


"There's a tendency to assume retail pricing is just a shell game where the prices of products are artificially inflated so they can then be offered at a "discount" in order to create a sense of value."

It is amusing to me when I check tool prices on amazon. Example, Ridgid 14" Bandsaw with a list price of $628.20
 

DWSmith

New User
David
If you get a discount at a retail store, that is gravy. If you are treated like a valuable customer, that is icing on the cake. I purchase where I am treated well and not like just another warm body walking in the door. Both Klingspor and Woodcraft have demonstrated both traits but I tend to gravitate towards Klingspor partly because they were a customer of mine when I worked for a power tool manufacturer.

BTW The average profit on a power tool, with the exception of Festool who sets the retail prices for retailers, is less than 10%, usually in the 5% range. But for accessories, the profit margin is higher.
 
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