Wood movement question

[Ralrick]

I'm making an interior decorative access door with final dimensions of about 30" x 80" x 2 3/4" thick. Overall, my goal is to reduce noise as there is an AC unit behind the door in a basement. My plan was to make a wooden frame filled with Roxul (sound deadening insulation) and then 1/4" plywood on the front and back. I'd like to encase the front and edges of the door with 1/2" Walnut to make an 'old-style' looking door with some large decorative iron hinges. Ideally it would be made from solid stock but that is just not an option as I don't have access to 12/4 Walnut and really would like to keep the weight down from solid wood.

So, my question is related to wood movement since I'd like to attach 1/2" thick walnut strips to the plywood base. The walnut will be in strips about 3-4" wide and almost 7' long.

Is there a correct way to attach the walnut and allow for movement? It will be in a conditioned space with fairly stable humidity but my concern is that the wood movement could cause the entire door to warp.

Thoughts?

 

[Wyatt Co.]

Ditch the 1/2" walnut idea. Build your door to size and veneer it. Plywood is stable. Adding thick planks will sacrifice that stability.

 

[JohnnyR]

Well you could have The Hardwood Store deliver 12/4 for about $60 last I checked. I personally would resaw 1/16" or less strips. You could just glue them on without worrying about movement. I'm assuming you're going to bevel the edges and/or distress it to make it "old looking" also suggest various width strips. If not you could also use walnut ply. Pictures when you're done please.

 

[Jeff]

Build the door like a torsion box and fill the cavity with Roxul as planned. 1/4" regular plywood skin on the back and 1/4" walnut plywood skin on the front face. Trim the whole edge shebang with 1/2" solid walnut.

then 1/4" plywood on the front and back. I'd like to encase the front and edges of the door with 1/2" Walnut to make an 'old-style' looking door with some large decorative iron hinges.

You'll have to give more details about what that old style looks like besides the iron hinges. :dontknow:

 

[Ralrick]

Thanks for the input guys. I did think about walnut plywood and veneer but I was hoping to have more depth detail in the front of the door. The pics below show an idea of the chamfers I was going to do with the wood as well as the outer frame on the front of the door being thicker than the other boards. See pics and then the old iron vent that is going to be the 'look-through' in the center of the door.

 

[Ralrick]

Well you could have The Hardwood Store deliver 12/4 for about $60 last I checked. I personally would resaw 1/16" or less strips. You could just glue them on without worrying about movement. I'm assuming you're going to bevel the edges and/or distress it to make it "old looking" also suggest various width strips. If not you could also use walnut ply. Pictures when you're done please.

$60 for enough 12/4 Walnut to make a door? or are you saying it is a $60 delivery charge? At what thickness does wood movement begin to create a challenge? I don't think I could use 1/16" for what I want to do but I could go down to about 1/4" thick

Rick

 

[McRabbet]

Since the backside of the door is not intended to be shown normally, I think your idea of using 1/2" walnut is okay. Since wood movement is across the grain, I would create a rabbet in the walnut rails and stiles to capture the 1/4" plywood you first suggested (although vertical walnut strips as shown in the first photo in Post #5 would look infinitely better). If you used the walnut strips, mill them to 3/8" thick and chamfer the edges for effect. Mill a rabbet across each end of the strips to fit under the rails and along the outside the outermost strip to fit under the stiles. Attach the rails and stiles with screws from the back about an inch in from the outer edges and let the strips float without fasteners, leaving about 1/8 inch between them (I'd paint the plywood dark brown or black so it wouldn't show through any gaps). You can still add the heavy iron hinges (just use oversized holes in the walnut to allow the hardwood to move) and decorative iron. An observer would never know it is not a solid wood door.

That's how I'd do it -- A bit of work, but it would look appropriate with the rest of your finished space.

 

[JohnnyR]

$60 for enough 12/4 Walnut to make a door? or are you saying it is a $60 delivery charge? At what thickness does wood movement begin to create a challenge? I don't think I could use 1/16" for what I want to do but I could go down to about 1/4" thick

Rick

$60 delivery, hundreds for solid wood door. McRabbit's on the right track although I would use thinner stock (I'm cheap). Think a paneled 3/4" door sliced to 3/8 thickness. You could let the middle panel float, maybe glue down the center and only rabbet the rails & stiles. I'd compromise @ 1/8" -3/16" for the panel, (experiment with cheap stock).

I don't know if this will show up well but the bottom shelf "insert/panel" is 1/4". After jointing/sanding etc, just before glue up I free hand sanded irregularly the top edges on a spindle sander to get the chamfer rather than using a chamfer bit for the distressed look.

 

[Ralrick]

I'd love to get this door to have the distressed look of your table - what wood did you use and how did you create the distressed look?

So much to learn. . . . .

 

[Jeff]

So much to learn. . . . .

Ditto for all of us too.

OK, we understand that you want a distressed finish look. No analysis paralysis here but just no analysis. Ok, walnut ply doesn't fit the pic designs that you want and maybe a torsion box design doesn't work either.

How are you going to make the door to your specs (80" h x 30" w x 2.75" t) with sturdy joinery and still get that distressed look that you want? A solid walnut door is doable with a floating ship-lapped panel so wood movement issues are lessened.

I'm just curious how you're going to have your cake and eat it too; a lightweight door, walnut, and doesn't cost a fortune but includes Roxul sound proofing within the frame.

 

[Ralrick]

Ditto for all of us too.

OK, we understand that you want a distressed finish look. No analysis paralysis here but just no analysis. Ok, walnut ply doesn't fit the pic designs that you want and maybe a torsion box design doesn't work either.

How are you going to make the door to your specs (80" h x 30" w x 2.75" t) with sturdy joinery and still get that distressed look that you want? A solid walnut door is doable with a floating ship-lapped panel so wood movement issues are lessened.

I'm just curious how you're going to have your cake and eat it too; a lightweight door, walnut, and doesn't cost a fortune but includes Roxul sound proofing within the frame.

I'm hoping you're coming over my shop to help figure it out ��. I have all the pieces roughly dimensioned and now I need to make the final decision on how to bring it to completion.

right now I'm thinking of making a floating panel of walnut in a frame and attached to the wooden box with figure 8 clips like attaching a table top to a frame.

 

[McRabbet]

Rick,

I'd make a door frame using 2 x material and use half-lap joinery with pegs through the joints at the corners and with at least two intermediate mid-rails across the frame for rigidity (also pegged; may want them at your hinge positions). Face the inside with 1/4" plywood panel and proceed with the public face as I posted above after filling the interior with Roxul or foam. The door would be much stronger if you used denser wood that SPF 2x4's; e.g., use 6/4 red or white oak or ash.

​

 

[srhardwoods]

I personally would build it as a stave core door. Poplar core, walnut resawed as 1/8" veneer, panels would be 1/4" ply both sides with foam in between to help reduce noise. Doing it this way, costs are lower and weight is lighter. Very little walnut needed and poplar is cheap.

 

[Jeff]

Sorry, I didn't intend to be offensive just trying to help out with a design plan. Rob has offered some good suggestions.

I have all the pieces roughly dimensioned and now I need to make the final decision on how to bring it to completion.

right now I'm thinking of making a floating panel of walnut in a frame and attached to the wooden box with figure 8 clips like attaching a table top to a frame.

The walnut will be in strips about 3-4" wide and almost 7' long.

That's good, you've got a head start on the rest of us. How about sharing some pics and dimensions of what you've got so far to bring us up to speed? Do you already have all of the walnut that you need? Nix the 12/4 walnut idea?

 

[Willemjm]

Rick, I am probably a bit late to your party.

If I had to this the solution would be back to your original idea of a wooden frame, M&T joinery on the frame with two stiles, three rails (one in the center), inexpensive 1/4" ply both sides filled with acoustic insulation. I would use either Poplar or paint grade Maple in 8/4. Some would even use Pine, although I never do. Any inexpensive hard wood below 12% MC will do.

For aesthetics, I would fit trim on the face using simple tongue and groove joinery (router table) with hidden finishing nails allowing for ample wood movement. The picture below shows one of various options I often use. If you wish a frame around the tongue and groove panel, both 4/4 solid or 3/4" ply with solid wood trimmed edges is a fast solution. For the tongue and groove, I use 3/8" boards.

If you wish to save the elbow grease, insulated fire wood doors (20 - 60 minutes) are available online and from various vendors for $350 upwards.

https://www.etodoors.com/mahogany-fire-rated-20-min-door.html/

 

[JohnnyR]

I'd love to get this door to have the distressed look of your table - what wood did you use and how did you create the distressed look?

So much to learn. . . . .

Rick, This was solid walnut. If you didn't understand the chamferd edges let me know and I'll explain better, or come on over and I'll show you. You have to be careful during glue up cause getting squeeze out from those edges is a b****. My son wanted dark wood so I put on several coats of Watco Dark Walnut. Then I took a chain from a chandelier and hammered it on the top randomly. Then another coat of Watco to fill in any exposed wood as a result of taking out my frustrations. Because it was a table I over coated w/ Poly. In your case I'd probably skip the Poly for a more older look.

Willem had good suggestions and I hope he stays on the board in the future after his move.