Wood Haul....or not

[MarkW]

I recently talked a friend into selling me the wood he had stashed for the last 11 years. All of it was from a stump of an oak at his grandfathers house that had been basically killed by linemen trimming around the power lines.

What I got was 30 pieces of red oak from 5/4 to 8/4 with most being 6/4. It was very rough, but my eyes were gleaming as we loaded the truck. Once we were through he decided that 60.00 should cover it.
Man I left there feeling really good. Heres a couple pics of the pile.

http://ncwoodworker.net/gallery/files/5/5/0/woodhaul.JPG
http://ncwoodworker.net/gallery/files/5/5/0/woodhaul1.JPG

Well today I decided to work on a few pieces to get the wood to finish the entertainment center and found this....
http://ncwoodworker.net/gallery/files/5/5/0/woodhaul_iguessnot.JPG

Now I have never seen this before, but i'd guess its some kind of weevil, though I have not seen anything live. The largest part of the wood has these.

Now I wonder whether to continue with the wood and use it as is (possibly for shop fixtures) or just write it off as bad luck. What do you guys think ?

 

[Kyle]

Its probably powder post beetles aka as the lyctid beetle which can survive down to 8% moisture. Heat is the only thing that can effectively kill powderpost and it has to be over 130 F for 24 hours (including the core) to kill the beetle and its larvae which can hatch up to 2 years later. This is primary reason for kiln drying wood.

 

[Ozzie-x]

Wormy red oak is beautiful wood, I certainly wouldn't scrap it or make shop jigs out of it. It commands a much higher price at the wood places. It's not appropriate for some styles of furniture, but it will look great for traditional, country, shaker or even mission style pieces. I've used lots of wormy red oak and it looks great.

 

[Monty]

So, to get rid of them, would you have to take it to a kiln? I don't think I would want to have that in my shop unless I knew it was pest-free!

 

[MarkW]

I ws wondering the same thing. And while I have not seen anything alive (hopefully meaning they flew the coop long ago) I would still be wondering.

BTW I did a much closer inspection and found that only half of the 30 boards show any sign's of this. The other 15 look clear.

Now I would assume that those I work right away and seal with laquer would at least be safe right ?

Maybe I should ask when you would think the infestation would have occurred. While the tree was standing or while being dried ? If while the tree was standing, i'm home free since its been cut for 11 years.

 

[Ozzie-x]

I think most of the little varmits get out of Dodge when you saw the lumber and do all he handling and stacking, although tell-tale wispy sawdust piles in the lumber stack confirms their presence. I used some white pine recently, and the evidence showed that the bugs had done their damage in the sawed stacked lumber- not a trace on the outside of the boards but the inside of boards were swiss cheese. I've never actually seen or sawed out any of the small bugs, I'll ask some of my botonist friends about them. Insom has a good point, if your shop is in your house, infested lumber could spread wee beasties to your house.

 

[MarkW]

I never saw any wood dust when we loaded it. Though these are very small holes, you can see them (now that I know what to look for) on the rough boards.

 

[Ozzie-x]

Usually most varmits get into the wood after it's dead. That can happen when the tree dies and bugs will get in it when it's still on the stump. If you cut the tree green, after you cut the saw logs if you let the logs hang around too long before you saw them, bugs can/will get into the wood then too. I think as the wood dries out, most bugs leave because of the absence of moisture. Lile Kyle said though, some bugs can probably hang around 'till the wood is almost bone dry, some bugs are darn persistent. Always remember, God made some kind of bug to eat about everything.

 

[Kyle]

You can put it in a very hot location ( barn, attic etc) and get the temp above the livable point for the larvae or beetle. The critter in softwoods is different than the ones that like hardwood. There are also borers that emerge from the cambium once the wood starts to dry below a certain point. The wood is definately usable just find the right application

my motto is "all wood is good wood"

 

[McRabbet]

You may want to warp about six boards edge-to-edge inside a "baggie" of black plastic and put it in the sun -- seal the baggie and turn it over every few hours to kill any critters. Make as many baggies as needed for your infested boards. They should get up to sufficient temp -- you'll know when you open the presents!

Rob

 

[cpowell]

I have heard mixed reviews on powder post beetles.

I talked with a bug expert at work a while back because I had received some red oak with powder post beetle evidence. He told me that they eat very, very slowly and should not pose a risk to any surrounding wood (or other furniture in the house). He also claimed that sealing the wood with an impermeable finish would kill any bugs left inside. He told me that the wood would add character and recommended I use it. However, being paranoid by nature, I didn't trust this stock for any major furniture pieces. I have used it for router cabinet, shop furniture, etc.

If it IS powder post beetles and they are still alive, you should see tell-tale signs of "powder" falling from holes on the bottom of the stacked wood. If you don't you may be fine.

To be completely honest, my single experience has made me very wary about buying AD wood. I have bought AD cherry, walnut, cedar with zero defects from a lumber yard and would buy from them again.

Chuck

 

[Kyle]

"I talked with a bug expert at work a while back because I had received some red oak with powder post beetle evidence. He told me that they eat very, very slowly and should not pose a risk to any surrounding wood (or other furniture in the house). He also claimed that sealing the wood with an impermeable finish would kill any bugs left inside. He told me that the wood would add character and recommended I use it. However, being paranoid by nature, I didn't trust this stock for any major furniture pieces. I have used it for router cabinet, shop furniture, etc"

They will infest everything if you don't kill them. I have seen entire piles of wood destroyed by PP. The impermeable surface only slows them on the way out of the wood not stop the reproduction or destruction. This was from correspondence with Dr Gene Wengert the "Wood Doctor". He said seperate and kiln dry the wood.

 

[Inflatable Screen Door]

I've seen those holes on lumber and hardwood flooring and never gave it a second thought. I hope my whole house is not infected.

here is a link to some info on powder post beatles http://www.uwex.edu/ces/wihort/GardenFacts/XHT1053.pdf#search='powder%20post%20beetles'

 

[MarkW]

I've seen those holes on lumber and hardwood flooring and never gave it a second thought. I hope my whole house is now infected.

Are you saying you want your house infected ?

 

[Inflatable Screen Door]

Typo corrected

 

[NCPete]

Are you saying you want your house infected ?

Sure, with wormy oak like that, think of the value-added?

 

[HardRock]

I would not even store the wood indoors untill ou are sure the pest are gone . Std paint or finishes do slow them done, but just barely.

I recently brought home about 1200 bdft of what apeared to be beutiful pine boards that my dad & I had harvested about 15 - 20 years ago. They were all 8 - 16" wide 4/4 and were hacked under shed alll this time. Upon planing, the bugs were still there and had basically ruined the boards. I selected the better looking ones to build some shop shelves out of and after two coats or paint, there was still fresh dust evidence of the critters every week. Finially after 6 sprayings o f very strong insecticide, I got them gone. The rest of the stack I had pressure treated.

 

[jeff...]

Mark, was wondering how you solved the buggy wood problem? I read somewhere, I don't remember where that fulling the holes with clear epoxy does the trick, might help with stability also?

 

[MarkW]

I haven't solved it yet. About half the wood showed signs of the beetles, the other half was clear. I went ahead and worked the clear half and obtained some borax which I applied to it. This should keep this clean. I am using this part to finish an entertainment center.

The beetle part seems stable it just has the holes. I have moved the wood outside and covered it. I also put a single layer of masking tape on a few boards to test to see if the infestation is current ( I believe it is an old one actually). If what I read is true, between April and July I should see signs of the bugs eating through the tape. Assuming the test proves false I will go ahead and use the wood on some country type of applications.

If it shows signs of being a current infestation, I'm just going to burn the wood.

I believe in the future, I will just be buying my wood kiln dried, not only for the beetle problem, but from all the extra work I had to do to make good lumber from this very rough stack of wood.