Pulled 21 once turned bowls from the soap solution today. Some walnut, some elm, some mystery wood, and one oak. Some of these have been soaking since January. A lot of live edge in this batch. Looking forward to final turning. 3-4 will just be final sanded as I turned them thin. The foam is from the dishwashing detergent, a surfactant.
WIP
- Thread starter Dee2
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Gene-
Interested in knowing more about this process. Is it specific soap? What ratio? Is three months the average time in the solution or is it dependent on size and thickness of the bowl? Do the bowls get weighted down so that they are completely submerged?
Thanks for sharing this.
Interested in knowing more about this process. Is it specific soap? What ratio? Is three months the average time in the solution or is it dependent on size and thickness of the bowl? Do the bowls get weighted down so that they are completely submerged?
Thanks for sharing this.
Not sure if I know 'more' about the process in terms of the science. I suspect the soap, a surfactant, transfers with the sap/enzymes and softens the cell walls as part of the process but pure conjecture.
I was taught to, and have always used, dishwashing soap. I think it is septic safe and therefore should be safe for other uses. I would NOT recommend laundry detergent (I'll tell you a story sometime). Still, soap is basically a surfactant that serves to make "water wetter". I mix 50-50 with water - which makes it pricey - a little less than $100 a trash can full. I use plastic trash cans so 20 gallons of mix. This mix was light on soap (gallon maybe) because I got tired of buying it. Buy the cheapest you can.
Three months is probalby 2X longer than I usually soak but I've been turning a lot of green wood this year. I have never considered the bowl wall thickness relevant for the soap process but haven't studied it.
In the past, when the soaked bowls were removed and dry to touch, I would put them in boxes/bags with wet shavings, weight them and track the weight loss. Probably harvest a 1-2" bowl in 6 months for final turning. Paper bags seem harder to come by now. Boxes, I'm too lazy to hunt, to cheap the buy. May have to touch up the diner down the road for used boxes.
Sometimes, I've weighted the bowls, not these. When I would walk by, on occasion, I would flip the top bowls that were sitting on top to keep their exposed sides wet.
I've got two more trash cans of green bowls 'soaking' in shavings, open lid. We'll see how those go.
FWIW, it is amazing (to me) the amount of sludge yielded from the soak.
Hope that helps.
I was taught to, and have always used, dishwashing soap. I think it is septic safe and therefore should be safe for other uses. I would NOT recommend laundry detergent (I'll tell you a story sometime). Still, soap is basically a surfactant that serves to make "water wetter". I mix 50-50 with water - which makes it pricey - a little less than $100 a trash can full. I use plastic trash cans so 20 gallons of mix. This mix was light on soap (gallon maybe) because I got tired of buying it. Buy the cheapest you can.
Three months is probalby 2X longer than I usually soak but I've been turning a lot of green wood this year. I have never considered the bowl wall thickness relevant for the soap process but haven't studied it.
In the past, when the soaked bowls were removed and dry to touch, I would put them in boxes/bags with wet shavings, weight them and track the weight loss. Probably harvest a 1-2" bowl in 6 months for final turning. Paper bags seem harder to come by now. Boxes, I'm too lazy to hunt, to cheap the buy. May have to touch up the diner down the road for used boxes.
Sometimes, I've weighted the bowls, not these. When I would walk by, on occasion, I would flip the top bowls that were sitting on top to keep their exposed sides wet.
I've got two more trash cans of green bowls 'soaking' in shavings, open lid. We'll see how those go.
FWIW, it is amazing (to me) the amount of sludge yielded from the soak.
Hope that helps.
Gene - I am familiar with soaking rough blanks in tanks of water ( Chris Ramsey ) , use of PEG, and the dishwashing liquid/water tanks for first turns. Have tried all of those, but have settled on something different - with great results.
I am currently using a method that Mike Mahoney, Kirk DeHeer, and Stuart Batty have told me about. Use the cheap Elmer's school glue, reduced with water. You can vary the ratio, but I like 1 gal. of glue to 1/2 gallon of water. I seal end grain and 1/3-1/2 of the side grain. You can even make it 50/50 and seal the entire piece ( that is what Mahoney does). What I like about this method is I can do it out side - or on the bench with a piece of construction paper under the work. Dries to the touch pretty quick, and then you can write the date and weight on the bottom with a sharpie. Stack them loosely, and put hem on a shelf/rolling rack.
I don't lose blanks to cracking like I used to when using the waxy crap. Which BTW...WILL turn your floor into a hockey rink
. I have no time for a broken leg, arm or hip.....so - this method have become my go-to. And you don't need a tank, or the cost of filling it. Cheap!And works well.
I am currently using a method that Mike Mahoney, Kirk DeHeer, and Stuart Batty have told me about. Use the cheap Elmer's school glue, reduced with water. You can vary the ratio, but I like 1 gal. of glue to 1/2 gallon of water. I seal end grain and 1/3-1/2 of the side grain. You can even make it 50/50 and seal the entire piece ( that is what Mahoney does). What I like about this method is I can do it out side - or on the bench with a piece of construction paper under the work. Dries to the touch pretty quick, and then you can write the date and weight on the bottom with a sharpie. Stack them loosely, and put hem on a shelf/rolling rack.
I don't lose blanks to cracking like I used to when using the waxy crap. Which BTW...WILL turn your floor into a hockey rink
. I have no time for a broken leg, arm or hip.....so - this method have become my go-to. And you don't need a tank, or the cost of filling it. Cheap!And works well.Yep! Got a stack under the flattening table now with the ends sealed using diluted Titebond. But, these are log sections at this point. Trying to keep them 'green' until I can get past a backlog of other work including a shop upgrade of replacing the sink and cabinets - grouting today.
Mike, thank you.
I spent a lot of time farming boxes at the ABC store in Greenville NC in preparation for the move to SC. I grew weary with the size and quality for moving and storing drying wood. There are other sources with boxes that are more suitable for my needs. And, since I don't drink liquor, it is inconvenient to go to the ABC store. Not sure I know where an ABC store is near by, LOL!
I spent a lot of time farming boxes at the ABC store in Greenville NC in preparation for the move to SC. I grew weary with the size and quality for moving and storing drying wood. There are other sources with boxes that are more suitable for my needs. And, since I don't drink liquor, it is inconvenient to go to the ABC store. Not sure I know where an ABC store is near by, LOL!
In NC those folks are quassia state employees and if asked nicely for finding boxes of a certain dimension they will be more than happy to supply them if it means they don't have to break them down to get rid of them.
Sounds like you have plenty of turning projects ahead of you Gene. I use the same soaking method as you, as you might guess. My two 30 gal. trashcans are down to about 1/3 full of solution and it's getting pretty "gunky" and thick. Do you pour yours out and start over at some point or just add more soap and water perpetually? I think it's time for me to buy more soap...
Karl,
Yep, finishing up a couple of light houses and repairing one that got dropped after the ceremony. And, a plethora of stuff awaiting attention.
I dump the solution and start over from time to time. Gotta be some dilution from sap. As hot as my s'hanger is in these sunshiny days, there is appreciable evaporation. The current tub only has seen one batch of wood.
Found a pallet of desiccant for sale a couple of hours away. Want to split it? LOL!
Yep, finishing up a couple of light houses and repairing one that got dropped after the ceremony. And, a plethora of stuff awaiting attention.
I dump the solution and start over from time to time. Gotta be some dilution from sap. As hot as my s'hanger is in these sunshiny days, there is appreciable evaporation. The current tub only has seen one batch of wood.
Found a pallet of desiccant for sale a couple of hours away. Want to split it? LOL!
Well then I'm overdue for a change of soap solution. No telling what has leached out of that wood for the past several years. I have added soap from time to time but I have no idea of the soap/water percentages at this point.
I like my brown paper bag and shavings method for drying although I have considered making a kiln...just waiting for the garage freezer to go out. Never considered desiccant. I guess you dry it in the oven?
I like my brown paper bag and shavings method for drying although I have considered making a kiln...just waiting for the garage freezer to go out. Never considered desiccant. I guess you dry it in the oven?
Looks like you may have some cherry mixed in there with all of that. I imagine that these soaks kill every bug that may still be in wood. Very education thread, thank you.
Yup, there aren't better boxes than the ones you get a liquer stores. Those places care about their precious cargo and take extreme packaging measure to ensure it.
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