Where to buy and how to install stair newel and railing

bphaynes

Parker
Corporate Member
I recently purchased my first home and we're moving to Winston-Salem in about a week. I had solid white oak hardwoods put in, but I'd like to replace the stained poplar newel post and railings currently on. What's the best place to buy white oak stair parts either in person or online? I found stairwarehouse.com and it looks reasonable compared to some other sites. I'm debating whether to install a box newel post at the top and bottom or a turned newel that would better match our Williamsburg style house. I'm also not sure how to piece everything together. In the picture you can see at the bottom of the stairs the railing is wider and then a separate railing goes up the stairs until the top where it returns back to the wall with a set of rail and balusters. Any tips, tricks or resources are greatly appreciated.
 

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Graywolf

Board of Directors, President
Richard
Staff member
Corporate Member

JimD

Jim
Senior User
Unless you have somebody like Chris make it, I think you will have difficulty finding white oak newels and railing. I am not also sure it should matter. But if you do go that route you may be able to get the best color match by picking the boards.

We talk about oak as if there were only two varieties, white or red. But in reality there are a lot more variations than that. The coloring of my white oak floors in my 50+ year old house are more light brown than my red oak projects but they are pretty close. Quarter sawn white oak has those interesting rays but red oak can have them too and flat sawn material does not have those rays. By floors have almost no rays.

I rebuilt one of the two staircases in my house replacing the stringers and all the other parts. I got my treads from the same lumber yard I use for trim and the two newels and the railing from Home Depot. They sell a lot more than they stock at their stores and they were convenient with good pricing. I could have probably gone back to the lumber yard but I did not need a lot (part of the staircase is closed on both sides and all of it is closed on one side).
 

bphaynes

Parker
Corporate Member
I could use red oak and try to match the stain, but I prefer white oak for a number of reasons. I think HD has red oak parts, but I haven't found white oak. I think I might be able to get them from Hood Distribution where I've gotten a few other things in the past.

Chris, specifically I am looking for a WO handrail, probably turned newel post (one will need a volute cap and the other with a ball cap), and white balusters (pre finished so I don't have to paint them).

Most of all I'm trying to figure out how exactly to put everything together such as the straight handrail to the volute, etc.
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
Are going to replace treads too? those lowers are just partials. The cheapest way to go is buying rail and involutes from LJ smith probably and making custom newells.
 
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JGregJ

New User
Greg
When I had a handrail replaced, the contractor said it needed to be a continuous rail from top to bottom. I noticed in your pics it was two parts. If you end up replacing the rail, you may want to make sure it meets latest building code. Perhaps someone on the forum, can speak to the current code requirements.
 

Graywolf

Board of Directors, President
Richard
Staff member
Corporate Member
When I had a handrail replaced, the contractor said it needed to be a continuous rail from top to bottom. I noticed in your pics it was two parts. If you end up replacing the rail, you may want to make sure it meets latest building code. Perhaps someone on the forum, can speak to the current code requirements.
What he has is to code.
 

bob vaughan

Bob Vaughan
Senior User
Maybe its the perspective of the camera but it looks like the baluster spacing is a little wider than 4" on the upstairs balustrade. The 4" spacing is code around here to prevent an infant from crawling between the balusters. I faced that problem with my stair opening in my 1960s house. The baluster spacing was an average of 6-3/4" and that was plenty of room for a crawling infant. I was faced with replacing the whole darn thing or come up with a cheap-out workaround.

1     balustrade - 1.jpg
1     spacing.jpg
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
What he has is to code.
I would agree, but codes do change and are different everywhere. The only requirements to worry about are balluster spacing and railing height for a replacment such as this, who is going to check? certainly if the spacing appeared too wide, over 4" , a home inspector MAY notice it , but doubtful.
 

Graywolf

Board of Directors, President
Richard
Staff member
Corporate Member
Maybe its the perspective of the camera but it looks like the baluster spacing is a little wider than 4" on the upstairs balustrade. The 4" spacing is code around here to prevent an infant from crawling between the balusters. I faced that problem with my stair opening in my 1960s house. The baluster spacing was an average of 6-3/4" and that was plenty of room for a crawling infant. I was faced with replacing the whole darn thing or come up with a cheap-out workaround.

View attachment 210389
View attachment 210390
Y’all could be right about the spacing, but experience has taught me to never speculate on distances using a photo. The only thing Im speaking of is the continuous hand rail. Rail hight and balusters spacing I can’t say by a photo.
 

bphaynes

Parker
Corporate Member
We have young kids and my wife will definitely have an opinion about the spacing. Balusters don't look too complicated, just line up spacing and drill some holes. I'll keep looking into how to connect the pieces in terms of the newel to the rail, etc.

I had the hardwood guys replace the stair treads already so all that is left is the hand rail and newels and such.
 

Craptastic

Matt
Corporate Member
Work I did on my stairs here in Gaston County the handrail had to be continuous, with no more than 8" of space where one termination ended and another began, for the length of the stairway.

Your milage may vary in other areas but what is pictured would pass here and in the base national code (agreed beforehand that is superseded by local code).
 

Dreuxgrad

Ed
Senior User
Yes, the code in Durham, about a decade ago, was continuous rail and balusters must be able to block a four inch sphere. I had a switch back, with a double landing. Had to order a longer newel with a longer attachment square, in addition to numerous quarter curves and goose neck drops.
I found that John Carroll's book of immense assistance. Page 174-7 specifically.
I could try to get you a scan, if you can't locate a copy of " MEASURING, MARKING, & LAYOUT, A Builders Guide. Published by Taunton Press, so you may even find it printed in Fine Home Building.
I found a great deal of planning, and visualization was required for my layout.
Good luck, Ed
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
I was not very traditional when I joined my handrail to the newel post and wall but it worked fine. I used trim head woodscrews and I filled the small holes they require with color matched wax. It is very solid. At the bottom I had the ability to put screws in from behind where they would not show so that is what I did. Construction adhesive is also a good idea to add where you can. Dowels are traditionally used to join two parts of the handrail, I believe. I did not have those type of joints but if I did, I would substitute a domino or two for greater strength. Dowels or dominos could also be used to join the handrail to the newel post. I've also seen information about using hanger bolts to join handrail or handrail to post which requires holes into the bottom to reach the nut. That would be solid and you could plug the hole using a big plug cutter and a scrap of oak.

My plan was to hide the screw where I could by coming in from below or behind and to use the trim head screws - from below when possible - where coming in from behind or below was not possible. I'm not sure that is enough for your more challenging staircase. I'd be planning at least dowels and preferably dominos perhaps with a few screws to hold the joint while the glue dries.

I really do not like straight handrail with a piece scabbed on because somebody cut it wrong. I made the contractor take out a long piece in my previous house because of this. I have a section in this house that bugs me but I haven't torn it out yet. I did my longest piece of handrail first so I could reuse a bad cut on a shorter section. But I did not scab anything together. I think it can be strong enough I just think it looks terrible.
 

bob vaughan

Bob Vaughan
Senior User
Here's what I did to fill those dangerously wide gaps between my balusters. For less than $300.00 the job got done. The result looked strange to me after 40 years of living with the gaps, but after a few months, I got used to the difference. I was also so much more confident of safety as my granddaughter grew up. She's about four now so the close gaps now prevent her from shoving large toys through the gaps as a child might do. I did buy a couple of extra balusters in case of a screw-up with the spring loaded pins. If things didn't go down in the hole just right, I'd have to cut the baluster in half and try another baluster. Fortunately that didn't happen. I shot an 18 gauge pin in at a diagonal to be sure things didn't twist plus glue in the top and bottom holes. It made for a much more sturdy balustrade.
(while this post doesn't address many of the issues of this thread, I thought I'd insert it in case someone in the future was dealing with this problem and doing a search.)

1     rail - 1.jpg
I think the dowels were 5/8".

1     handrail.jpg
Before and after
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
Here's what I did to fill those dangerously wide gaps between my balusters. For less than $300.00 the job got done. The result looked strange to me after 40 years of living with the gaps, but after a few months, I got used to the difference. I was also so much more confident of safety as my granddaughter grew up. She's about four now so the close gaps now prevent her from shoving large toys through the gaps as a child might do. I did buy a couple of extra balusters in case of a screw-up with the spring loaded pins. If things didn't go down in the hole just right, I'd have to cut the baluster in half and try another baluster. Fortunately that didn't happen. I shot an 18 gauge pin in at a diagonal to be sure things didn't twist plus glue in the top and bottom holes. It made for a much more sturdy balustrade.
(while this post doesn't address many of the issues of this thread, I thought I'd insert it in case someone in the future was dealing with this problem and doing a search.)

View attachment 210480
I think the dowels were 5/8".

View attachment 210479
Before and after
Brilliant solution. That goes in the back of my mind for future reference.
 

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