What size power feeder for an 8" jointer?

[blackhawk]

I have a Grizzly 8" jointer with helical head. I am looking at getting a power feeder for it as I use it quite a bit for flattening boards before the planer. I have never used a power feeder at all before. What minimum horsepower feeder should I be looking for? Is 3 wheels enough or should I go with 4? Is variable speed a must have? I would also like to use this on my Grizzly 1-1/2 HP shaper on occasion.

 

[Oka]

The one I have was for a bigger jointer but it works fine for me if I remember correctly, it was only 1/4 hp. It is the gearing that matters.

 

[blackhawk]

The one I have was for a bigger jointer but it works fine for me if I remember correctly, it was only 1/4 hp. It is the gearing that matters.

Thanks, what do I look for with the gearing?

 

[old and in the way]

Brad:

Using a power feeder on a jointer will remove rough sawing irregularities from the face of the board, which will make the face of the board smooth but will not flatten it. The force of the rollers holding the board face to the jointer bed will flatten a bow as it travels over the cutter, only to have the bow reappear after the cut. Hand feeding allows a jointer to gradually reduce the cup, twist, bow, and concavity of a board until it is flat.

Good idea to have a power feeder for a shaper. I have an old Comatic 4 wheel feeder, I believe 2HP (but I am not sure), with a removable cover over the gearbox that allows switching the actual gears, which allows it to have 8 feed speeds that vary from 6.5 FPM to 108 FPM. I can't imagine feeding lumber at 108 FPM; the knife marks would probably be 1/4" apart. I use this on a 5HP shaper; if your shaper is smaller or larger you might adjust the feeder size that you need accordingly.

Hope this helps.
Tone

 

[blackhawk]

Tone - Good info. Do you think even if I set the feeder to maintain just enough pressure to feed the boards through that I would still see problems? I might get to the point where it doesn't feed without the pressure that causes the boards to deform.

 

[Oka]

All depends, Tone is correct, but if you are doing alot of wood and likely some will be decently flat it really helps in the fatigue on your arms/shoulders.

That is how i use it, if I am doing a few boards then I do not use it at all.

It is nice to have though, I use it on routing too which Tone pointed out is really helpful.

I got mine for 25 bucks and spent 20 bucks on replacement wheels, so wasn't a cost impact. I'd keep an eye out for these as they often are offered for low prices.

Bear in mind, the older ones with a dial adjust work just fine. The other that have more bells n whistles are nice but imho total overkill and just more money than the worth.

 

[mkepke]

Aren’t PFs used on jointers in light commercial settings?

Seems like there’s gotta be a way to set up to face - and edge-joint rough boards or shops wouldn’t do it.

-Mark, whose hands on experience is limited to PFs on shapers.

 

[old and in the way]

I suppose that it all depends on your application. If you are making doors or anything that requires flat stock, then a power-fed jointer would not be the approach. If you are making moldings on a shaper, then it might not matter, although it might be a marginal difference between powerfeeding a jointer to face a board and just raising the bed rollers on your planer and pushing the board through.

I have never seen a power-fed jointer used for edging a board; in shops larger than my one-man operation a sawn straight edge was done with a straight-line saw, or if clean faces and edges were needed, the material was S4S through a molder. If you need a machined edge, you could probably put a straight cutter in your shaper, offset the infeed fence and have the same effect as using the jointer to power edge a board, probably with a lot less trouble by using the feeder on a shaper.

FWIW. YMMV.
Tone

 

[mkepke]

No endorsement expressed or implied but here's some interesting video of a fellow face jointing a bunch of stock. You can see in a couple shots he's working with stock with a moderate bow:

..and here's an example of someone pushing the limits of a traditional jointer:

-Mark

 

[chris_goris]

I think having a power feed on a jointer would be fine if you had a dedicated one to edge joint after face jointing. Otherwise, depending on how much you may need to face joint swinging the powerfeed out of the way (if you can) and working around it will be problematic. There are lots of variables in sizing a power feeder for any machine, the biggest is friction. In order to have a feeder, they rely on friction to operate. Too much friction to get a wide board to feed and it may not work at all, too little and the same issue. It will vary by board width and species and how nice and shiny and clean you can keep your in and outfeed tables.

 

[Rwe2156]

Agree with @tone. I know they use them in production set ups, but I can’t see one working if you care about flat. There just too much technique a finesse getting a face flat. Maybe edge jointing.

 

[chris_goris]

Agree with @tone. I know they use them in production set ups, but I can’t see one working if you care about flat. There just too much technique a finesse getting a face flat. Maybe edge jointing.

I disagree completely with this statement. There is no finessing involved in using a jointer (properly). Assuming your machine is setup true ( both infeed and outfeed tables are coplanar and the outfeed table height matches your cutter major diameter ) A warped, twisted, cupped or whatever irregularity board enters the cutter head fully supported on the infeed table. No matter how deep your initial cut, THIS establishes the newly cut flat surface that stays in contact with the outfeed table for the remainder of the cut, creating a flat face. There is no finessing here, no moving the infeed board to compensate for anything or else you dont get a flat suface.

 

[old and in the way]

Perhaps the distinction has to be made between flat (where all of the points on the board face occupy the same geometric plane) and smooth (where the surface of a rough sawn board has been removed, but not necessarily such that all of the points of that board face occupy the same geometric plane).

As an example, if you set your jointer to remove 1/16" and power feed a board that has a 1/4" bow, the feeder will press the board down at the point of cutter contact and remove increments of 1/16" along the entire length of the board, but you are not removing the bow, you are removing 1/16" of material. You might just as well run a rough board through a planer.

Hand feeding a jointer allows the irregularities of the board to "float", in this case removing 1/16" from both ends of the board but not the middle, and repeated passes will take more material from both ends until the board face is flat and smooth, instead of just smooth. (Yes, crown down is the proper way to remove a bow, but this is for illustrative purposes)

A stack of properly faced and planed boards will be solid, with no gaps between the boards and no rocking of the stack. The same can not always be said for a stack of boards prepared in another manner. Again, it depends on your intended use. If you are making doors, windows, or panel assemblies that interface with doors and windows, you will want flat stock. If you just need smooth boards, any method of smoothing them will do.

You will note in the first video that Mark posted that the operator makes a point of showing the edge of the board with a bow prior to power jointing, but does not show it after jointing, perhaps with good reason, such as the very likely possibility that the bow is still there.

FWIW. YMMV.
Tone

 

[chris_goris]

Perhaps the distinction has to be made between flat (where all of the points on the board face occupy the same geometric plane) and smooth (where the surface of a rough sawn board has been removed, but not necessarily such that all of the points of that board face occupy the same geometric plane).

As an example, if you set your jointer to remove 1/16" and power feed a board that has a 1/4" bow, the feeder will press the board down at the point of cutter contact and remove increments of 1/16" along the entire length of the board, but you are not removing the bow, you are removing 1/16" of material. You might just as well run a rough board through a planer.

Hand feeding a jointer allows the irregularities of the board to "float", in this case removing 1/16" from both ends of the board but not the middle, and repeated passes will take more material from both ends until the board face is flat and smooth, instead of just smooth. (Yes, crown down is the proper way to remove a bow, but this is for illustrative purposes)

A stack of properly faced and planed boards will be solid, with no gaps between the boards and no rocking of the stack. The same can not always be said for a stack of boards prepared in another manner. Again, it depends on your intended use. If you are making doors, windows, or panel assemblies that interface with doors and windows, you will want flat stock. If you just need smooth boards, any method of smoothing them will do.

You will note in the first video that Mark posted that the operator makes a point of showing the edge of the board with a bow prior to power jointing, but does not show it after jointing, perhaps with good reason, such as the very likely possibility that the bow is still there.

FWIW. YMMV.
Tone

If you only want "smooth" you only need to use a planer.

 

[mkepke]

<snip>

You will note in the first video that Mark posted that the operator makes a point of showing the edge of the board with a bow prior to power jointing, but does not show it after jointing, perhaps with good reason, such as the very likely possibility that the bow is still there.
<snip>

I think that's a bit unjustified. The guy in the first video 'shows his work' especially though the first minute of video. In fairness to the guy in the video, the video wasn't purpose-made resolve a debate on NCWW

But one can clearly see the jointer is cutting/cleaning up from the center/concave area initially and progressing outwards towards the ends on subsequent. That's not what one would expect if the PF was simply mashing the stock flat before jointing - which it can't do anyways, because all the PF's feed pressure is AFTER the cutterhead.

Now I happen to think its weird that he feeds the stock with the convex down, rather than up (which is how I'd hand feed it), but it seems to be working for him.

-Mark

 

[old and in the way]

This will be one of those threads where, much as in life, you are what you believe.

@Mark:

You said: "I think that's a bit unjustified. The guy in the first video 'shows his work' especially though the first minute of video. In fairness to the guy in the video, the video wasn't purpose-made resolve a debate on NCWW"

I'm not looking for Youtube, of all things, to settle a difference of opinion. I only pointed it out because he showed how bowed the board was before jointing, but did not show that the board was flat after being run over the jointer. Before and after, if they are true, deserve equal time.

Tone