What planes are best for end grain???

[DaveO]

I've got a Stanley block plane & a #4. Neither are doing the best job. Am I atacking the beast with the wrong sword. Dave:smile:

 

[Phillip]

daveo, you're on the right track. either of those planes will work for end grain. end grain is difficult, your blade needs to be as sharp as possible, you need considerable downward pressure, and the plane with the smaller mouth is the one to use. you'll have to set the iron a little further out than seems right, and most importantly, end grain has direction just like face grain. it will plane better from one side or the other. if you're planing a long length the #4 will be easier on your hands. for smaller pieces a shooting board might be helpful also. hope this helps.

phil

one last thing, i don't know what you're sharpening with but diamond stones alone will not get a plane sharp enough to plane end grain to a fine finish. sandpaper on glass, oilstones, and (my favorite) waterstones will give you the edge you need.

 

[DaveO]

Thanks, I think I must not be sharp enough, they work well on face grain, but not on end. I do sharpen with a diamond stone then finish on ceramic. I can shave hairs with the irons, with that system. Must have some thin hair. Dave:smile:

 

[DaveO]

Sharpening really does Help. I worked on my irons a little more today with some 800 grit paper on soapstone. I think that I am getting sharper, they cut better.

Dave:smile:

 

[johncolvin13]

The toughest thing about handplanes is proper tuning. Out of the box they are far from ready for use. Even if the blade is surgical sharp the chipbreaker may need to be flattened, the frog may need filing, the sole flattened, and a hot of other things. There are many good books and articles about handplane tuning. It takes several hours to prepare a plane correctly. It probably makes more of a difference with a hand tool than any of the machine tools to have it dead right.

 

[DavidF]

Hi DaveO - Chip breaker isn't so much of a problem with end grain as bevel angle and of course cutting angle. Low angle is better for EG, but not strickly necessary if the plane is sharp - think shootong board if the length is resonable - 12"? You may try as a last resort damping the grain with a little water. What's happening anyway? just producing dust or sliding over the top? If you are having to increase the DOC to the point where it goes from sliding over the top to digging in, then the blade probably is still not sharp enough or ground to the wrong angle.

 

[TominZebulon]

DaveO, is your block plane a low angle block? You may find it a bit easier going with one of those. ANd I agree with the other assesments about the sharpness of the iron. You really cannot get it "too" sharp! I personally grind a bevel on a wheel, then use wet/dry paper on glass on my irons. Man, does that put a nice edge on them! I also agree on spending a little time on tuning up the plane. It is very tedious, but it really does make a world of difference.

 

[Big Mike]

Dave, sharpening or finish sharpening on wet dry silicon carbide paper adhered to plate glass opened up a whole new world of sharp to me. I was able to plane highly figured wood, end grain and and on the bevel in ways I never thought possible until I was able to get the iron really sharp. I depend upon the Veritas guide and paper and it becomes idiot proof for me. I do a final polish with a non-abrasive ceramic stone used in the "olden days" for sharpening surgical instruments that I inherited. I think it aligns the "teeth" and puts a mirror finish on the bevel and back. Sharp, sharp, sharp....at least I think it is.

 

[chris99z71]

Just curious, is this the guide that your referring to?

 

[Big Mike]

Chris, I was referring to the one pictured. I have it and have been very satisfied with its performance particularly the angle setting jig which assures repeatability. Plus the guide allows you to make a 1/2* micro bevel with a turn of a knob. I like it. For the first time I have been able to achieve consistent results. It takes the guesswork out of my hands...

 

[johncolvin13]

My thoughts on proper chip breaker position and flatness is that it produces even pressure on the knife. Without that the knife can move around a bit, I admit only a small amount of movement can occur, but any movement takes away from the tool cutting as well as it could.

 

[Phillip]

In the spirit of discussion I have to respectfully disagree that low angle planes are better for end grain. I believe it's a myth perpetuated in order to sell more planes, Lee Valley's new line of low angle planes only reinforces my suspicions. Look at any collection of antique tools that belonged to a working cabinetmaker and the only low angle plane you're likely to see is a boxy, very heavy, low angle plane made for shooting, and I believe its mass has more to do with its performance that its low angle. My wooden planes shave endgrain just fine, my Japanese planes have no chipbreaker and are bedded at +/-45 degrees, my western (Krenov style) planes have chipbreakers and are bedded at 45 degrees, or as close as a chopsaw can get to that. The only metal plane I use regularly is a Lie-Nielsen low angle adjustable mouth block plane, with a 12 degree bed angle and 30 degree bevel it's almost the same as my bench planes. And to pass on an opinion that is not my own, Alan Peters uses a Stanley No 7 for everything, flattening, smoothing, shooting, endgrain, everything. And now I'm ready for my lashing.

Phillip

 

[DaveO]

Wow, that thread was resurected from the dead:lol: I have to admit that I put it up to start some activity in the hand tool forum. I also was interested in the answers, but didn't have any particular problem. I do have a 21 deg. block plane that works OK, but I have since found that there is a 12 deg. "low" angle that would be a better choice. Now I just have to take DavidF's class on sharpening, and tuning so I can shave my head as bald as Sapwood's. Dave

 

[golfdad]

Very interesting stuff. Just what I needed as I am trying to get into the plane thing and starting sharpening my own stuff also with the "Scary Sharp" method.Keep the info coming for us Beginers.I'd like to know more about the Tuning of new planes.:icon_thum

 

[sapwood]

Yep, this is good stuff! I'm anxious to try fine sandpaper on glass as last step. Several have mentioned it here, on woodnet, and of course, DavidF--who demonstrated its value to Cloudancer and myself.

Like to see suggestions for sources for the sandpaper. Retail auto parts? Online? 2000 to 6000 grit?

Sapwood

 

[Jonz]

For sandpaper sharpening, here's what I would get to start:

- paper (like 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000)
- glass (or a FLAT marble floor tile or countertop)
- spray adhesive
- honing jig

You will probably need some heavier paper for back flattening.

For a cheap jig, this one will do anything you need, it just takes a little more work to get the bevel set, and it you'll have to deal with the microbevel yourself if you want one. This is woodcraft but the same one is sold all over.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?DeptID=2056&FamilyID=3114

Auto stores normally have the fine grit papers.

 

[sapwood]

Thanks Jonz,

I'm half way there! Been using the jig, just haven't gotten around to getting finer sandpaper.

Sapwood

 

[golfdad]

Klingspor in Raleigh :icon_thum has both Alum Oxide and Silicon Carbide paper and I beleive they have it up to 2000 grit. I also saw up to 2000 at Woodcraft in Raleigh

 

[chris99z71]

Cool. I don't think that $36.50 is an unreasonable price for that. I can see how that bevel finder part would take alot of guess work out of it.
Idiot proof + me = good

Chris, I was referring to the one pictured. I have it and have been very satisfied with its performance particularly the angle setting jig which assures repeatability. Plus the guide allows you to make a 1/2* micro bevel with a turn of a knob. I like it. For the first time I have been able to achieve consistent results. It takes the guesswork out of my hands...

 

[Jonz]

There is a new version of the veritas jig out now, so if you go with that one you may be able to find it at a decent deal. I know I've seen a few for sale on woodnet since the new one has been available.