What is the best Lithium-ion hand tool brand?

Sourwould

New User
Taylor
I have have Makita. They've held up well on job sites for 5+ years. I buy everything used and still have the first 18v makita tool I bought (10 years old now).

My boss uses dewalt. I find them serviceable, but unrefined.

Word of warning on the large kits (others may have mentioned this), they seem to be where the companies stick all their old and crappy tools to squeeze that last dime out of them. My boss got one of those big kits and everything is just slightly worse than the tool he bought stand alone. For example, plastic chuck on the kit drill and steel chuck on the other.
 

Hmerkle

Board of Directors, Development Director
Hank
Staff member
Corporate Member
Hank, despite the drawbacks of kits, Lowe's has a killer online deal today on Dewalt.
O.K. but what Dewalt products compare to the Milwaukee Fuel and the Makita XLT? (This is another little problem rolling around in my head - as some have pointed out - they are similar, but definately not the same... battery life, torque, tool longevity etc...)
 

Sourwould

New User
Taylor
O.K. but what Dewalt products compare to the Milwaukee Fuel and the Makita XLT? (This is another little problem rolling around in my head - as some have pointed out - they are similar, but definately not the same... battery life, torque, tool longevity etc...)

The big drawback to the dewalt tools is the batteries, imo. They're kind of cheapy. The chargers are cheapy. The charging time is soooooo long. Dewalt is black and decker and honestly it shows.

I like that the makita batteries use air passed through the battery to speed up charging. Festool came out with this "technology" pretty recently. Makita has had it for 15ish years.

I can't speak for milwaukee. A friend of mine is all milwaukee, he seems to do ok. I built a roof for him and used some of his stuff. I found the impact and sawzall underpowered. They don't make 'em in wisconsin.

Makita is by no means a perfect company with a perfect set of tools. It's all shenzen quality, to some extent. But has put up with my utter abuse and neglect. Have dropped my battery saw off roofs and ladders over and over again.
 

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
Lowes has some good sales on the DeWalt LI batteries right now. Two 5Ah for $99 and Two 5AH + 2 2Ah for $159. I too am looking hard at that conversion kit, but waiting for someone else to try it so I can get some feedback on how well the tools balance. A good friend of mine has the 20v lithium setup, and the brushless tools are smaller and lighter. The impact driver with the 2Ah battery is really nice.

As for DeWalt and their combo deals, I have noticed in the past that the tools are of a cheaper grade than the ones bought individually. Not sure that's still the case.
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
I started with Ryobi 18 volts when they were Ni Cd and have upgraded to lithium ion and purchased a few more tools. I like the drills and find them more powerful than a Milwaukee 12V I have (latest design) but the batteries are definitely bulky. The batteries are also more reasonably priced, however. I find the reciprocating saw useful but the blade flops around some until you get the cut started. The jig saw is OK for light use in my opinion. The oscillating saw is OK for drywall but my Milwaukee 12V is Much better, roughly equivalent to my corded Fein. It cuts wood and metal much quicker than the Ryobi. My Ryobi battery saw is only about 5 inch blade so depth of cut is marginal for 2X material but it works with lithium ion batteries. My Skil 20V is much more powerful and the batteries last much longer. I also have a Skil hammer drill and it is a decent tool to, for light use.

I also have a Milwaukee 18V right angle grinder and framing nailer. They are good tools but decidedly heavy.

I like the Ryobi drills and impact driver but the other tools are more in the "usefull" category for me, not the "nice" category. I was disappointed in the Milwaukee 12V drill when the low range stripped out of it (turning a big hole saw the Ryobi 18V handles fine) but the other Milwaukee tools are, to me, nice. I like the two Skil tools I have but I don't think it's practical to standardize on them. I have a Bosch click type multi head drill and it is my favorite light drill. I will probably get a Bosch battery operated jigsaw at some point, I really like my corded one.

I also have Ryobi 40V yard tools and I would also put them in the useful category except for the string trimmer. I really like it.

I have all the different types because I get free stuff from Home Depot under their seeds program. I have to do reviews. I got all the Milwaukee stuff that way. They want reviews on new tools so that is what they are. That is also the way I got the two Skill tools and a lot of the Ryobi yard stuff. If I was to standardize, I think I would go Milwaukee. But I have not tried any recent Makita tools. I use DeWalt drills, impact drivers, and an oscillating saw when volunteering at church. They work fine but I got rid of a DeWalt Ni Cd drill years ago over battery price. That would be my concern. I think Milwaukee might be a little better on batteries from the small amount of casual internet searching I've done. Milwaukee also has a broad line. Their parent is the same company as Ryobi, I believe. But overall I think they are noticably better tools.
 

Drew

Drew Goodson
User
I have the DeWalt battery conversion kit. Changes in balance and weight of the kit on my drill, impact driver, and flashlight haven’t been noticeable. I haven’t tried it in my jig saw. I thought that would be a bigger issue but it hasn’t been.

Big thing to note is you need to remove the battery from the converter piece once you are finished with the tool or it will quickly drain the power from the battery. Removing the battery from the kit and the kit from the tool is sometimes less than smooth.

The kit is expensive and it’s worth carefully considering just upgrading vs. buying it.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
Corporate Member
Well, I have some feedback on a cordless brand. I have a Kobalt ( Lowes branded, made by KongKong SunRise Trading for GreenWorks) pole saw. Recall on a bad switch. Letter with wrong phone number. Wait an hour and got the correct number. Line busy. Left a call back. A week and no call back. Call again. Closed for holidays, no answer on when.

Again this proves, product aside, the Chinese have a LONG way to go on customer service.
 

Martin Roper

Martin
Senior User
I dropped by HD today and checked out the sales. They had the Milwaukee M12 combo kit (drill and impact, batteries & charger) for just $100 (expires Dec. 2). I might've walked out with it but the handles are just too fat for me.

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I checked out Ryobi's new 18v brushless compact combo kit. It's only $140 and very compact, not quite like the Makitas, but about the same as the DeWalts and Milwaukee M18s. Even though the batteries are a post design like the Milwaukee M12, the handles are nice and slim and easy to grip.

1606526278949.png


Those will definitely be coming home with me. And I won't have another battery platform to worry about. Price is good till Dec. 2.
 

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chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
That is one of the reasons I am considering a change - a few years ago and for a few years in a row - I bought the Black Friday deal and sold the tool and charger on Fleabay - keeping the batteries! Can't do that anymore...

But, I have so many tools -
Drill, Impact, saw, Jigsaw...
Maybe I need to invent a converter for the Li Ion to the old 18 V De Walt... hmmm...

EDIT - Someone beat me to it...

Well! This might just be my Christmas present...
I use this Hank.... would like to know if anyone else here does as well. My batteries go dead overnight for some reason. Even if out of the drill. Anyone else experiencing this?. I have 3 of these batteries about a year old and all 3 will go dead if off the charger.
 

Drew

Drew Goodson
User
I use this Hank.... would like to know if anyone else here does as well. My batteries go dead overnight for some reason. Even if out of the drill. Anyone else experiencing this?. I have 3 of these batteries about a year old and all 3 will go dead if off the charger.
If you take them out of the tool but leave them in the inverter, it still eats the battery. I take the battery off the inverter (often leaving the inverter in the drill) and that resolved my issues. YRMV
 

McRabbet

Rob
Corporate Member
Hank,

I am a strong proponent of the Makita LXT line of cordless tools, available on sale through CPO (here is a link). If you want a good Combo set choose the Model XT505 that includes 5 tools (Hammer Drill, Impact Driver, Flashlight, Demolition Saw and Circular saw with 2 batteries and charger) for $299 (Price in cart at top right of listing). If you just want a good hammer drill/impact driver set, you might choose the MKTNCT225SYX that you'll find farther down the page with a charger, two 1.5 AH batteries and a carry bag for $179. I have a different set that included a compact LED flashlight and two 3.0 AH batteries and a carrying case that I paid about $200 about 4-5 years ago which is stillo going very strong. Best drill set I've ever had, by far. JMTCW
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
If you take them out of the tool but leave them in the inverter, it still eats the battery. I take the battery off the inverter (often leaving the inverter in the drill) and that resolved my issues. YRMV
I can leave the battery on the bench and they still die...
 

bobsmodels

Bob
Senior User
I opted to upgrade to the 20V battery. I have 6 Dewalt tools that all work just fine and are in really good shape. Waiting for sales on the adapter and the batteries over the last six months let me score a charger, 2 of the 2 amp and 2 of the 5 amp, and 5 adapters. I paid far less than replacing all 6 tools. I even looked at combinations of new tool and batteries etc vs adapters for just some. None of the combinations I came up with beat the price for just doing the battery upgrade. I recommend buying real Dewalt and not the look alike equipment, some of which is really deceptive ie color and text can bait you down a rabbit hole.

Just another approach if you have a number of the tools. I have been using the new stuff for about 3 months now. Still have one 18V pack that works fine but it is from 2014 so in another two years it will likely give up.

Bob
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
As you can tell from my earlier post, I have a lot of lithim ion battery tool brands, Ryobi, Milwaukee (12 and 18), Skil, and Bosch. None of them will fully discharge sitting on the bench. I've noticed the Ryobi 40V will lose a little power, maybe one bar, during storage of a month or more and it might be worse stored in the tool - but that could be because the tool is in the shed and thus no climate control. I think it is significantly abnormal if you are talking about full depletion in the tool or on the bench. None of my tools do that. Maybe in a year but certainly not in a month.
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
As you can tell from my earlier post, I have a lot of lithim ion battery tool brands, Ryobi, Milwaukee (12 and 18), Skil, and Bosch. None of them will fully discharge sitting on the bench. I've noticed the Ryobi 40V will lose a little power, maybe one bar, during storage of a month or more and it might be worse stored in the tool - but that could be because the tool is in the shed and thus no climate control. I think it is significantly abnormal if you are talking about full depletion in the tool or on the bench. None of my tools do that. Maybe in a year but certainly not in a month.
These will die on the bench, out of the tool, overnight.... just CRAP.
 

Hmerkle

Board of Directors, Development Director
Hank
Staff member
Corporate Member
These will die on the bench, out of the tool, overnight.... just CRAP.
Something is wrong there, becase Li Ion technology should NOT do that... one of the reasons I am considering a change...
I never looked at the Milwaukee 12V syatem (just another system) but if it fits my hand for $100... wowsers!
I checked the driver is supposed to delive up to 275 Lb. In of torque and the impact up to 1000 Lb. In. of torque, and they are a LOT lighter weight than the 18 V DeWalt tools I have... if I go this route, I may find myself reaching for them first...??
 

bobsmodels

Bob
Senior User
Update on the Dewalt batteries that I have purchased. I have 2 of 2 aH and 2 of the 5 aH. The 5 aH I got on october 27 and charged them full. I remember just putting the 2 aH ones on the charger that day also. As of today, November 30, I have not used the 2 aH ones at all, both check all green. I have not used one of the 5 aH, it is all green. The other 5 aH was put on my electric drill and has been used off and on a bit, until last friday when I used it for pilot holes along the driveway with a 12" x 1/4" bit for predrilling holes for my guide stakes for snowblowing - so I can find the driveway. About 50 holes, and it is at 2 green lights.

Now for the catch - all the batteries except the one on the drill were just on a shelf not plugged into any unit. So I have not seen any degradation with them. I had read that the Dewalt adapter drained the battery if you left in the adapter. The reason for this is there is a detection circuit built into the adapter for charger safety. Dewalt fully expects people to pull the adapter with the Li battery attached out of the drill for example and put it in an 18V charger. I assume someone would do that because they were too cheep to buy the Lithium charger. If they do that sparks will fly and all sorts of things happen, you must use the correct charger. The safety circuit detects this individuals attempt to do something unsafe ( nicest word I can think of) and does not connect the battery to the 18v charger. It disables the ability for a charge to occur. The detection circuit is on all the time and draws current from your battery, so it discharges over time. I did some tests and it took about 3 days for a battery to discharge. I just put a 2 aH battery in an adapter, no tool, and just let it set on the bench. Dewalt mentions that you must remove the battery from the adapter after each use.

In my original post I mentioned purchasing real Dewalt and not copies. One of the items you can purchase is a copy adapter. Most of them sell real cheep compared to the Dewalt, most do not have the detection circuit, the battery is just fed directly to the tool. BTW there is nothing wrong with that. The "20V" battery is actually fed full voltage through the Dewalt adapter, so your tool is not being damaged by the lack of a detection circuit. I verified that with my Fluke meter. Voltage across the battery was 20.21V, put the battery in the adapter and measured voltage across the adopter got same 20.21V. I do not recommend modifying the Dewalt adapter by bypassing the detection circuit, even if you could get it apart. There are special tamper resistant Torx screws. The reason I mentioned purchasing real Dewalt adapters is I sure would not want someone on this board to inadvertently plug the adapter into an 18V charger ( I am sure this group is smarter than that). It is actually a bit difficult to get the adapter out, it really wants to stay in.

Since I purchased enough adapters to cover my tools they will just stay in, and my 18V charger is on its way out so I will certainly not be tempted to have a fireworks display.

I recommend all the data I have presented be independently verified by each of you. Your findings may differ from mine.

I will bet with all the sales going on today you could score a charger with two 2 aH XR batteries with an adapter ($99 today at Home Depot), and maybe some of the larger batteries. Make sure you get the XR batteries not the plain ones.

Bob
 

Rwe2156

DrBob
Senior User
I’ve pretty much switched to Milwaukee from DeWalt. I bought an 18V combo kit on sale last year and it has been excellent.

one of my batteries took a swim in a bucket of water and wouldn’t charge. I thought it was toast aster a couple weeks I was going to toss it and for the he’ll of it stuck it in the charger - charged up and works fine!
 

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