Water heater update

[jhreed]

Is there a hot water issue in the bathroom sink? If yes, I have no idea. If no, then I think the thermostatically controlled shower mixing valve is an el-cheapo and is inconsistant. Replace it with a good brand.
James

 

[Skymaster]

Trent: At the risk of looking like an idiot, ME that is: Are you able to work safely with live power? DONT holler at me I cry easily:gar-Bi, What it sounds like is that heater is runnin on 110. Either you or an electrican check the voltage at the elements, It very well could be a broken or loose connection in the junction box. Everything u r sayin rings of a 110 heater.

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Sorry I didn't read this thread earlier. A friend had the EXACT SAME PROBLEM with the EXACT SAME SYMPTOMs.

Water started out hot then got colder as time went on- it seemed to them like they were running out of hot water. They initially thought it just affected the shower until I started to troubleshoot- we verified it happened all over the house if there was a large enough call for hot water.

I went down to their basement and opened up the inlet valve on the hot water heater- it was about 85%+ closed. What was happening, is when there was a call for hot water, the HW tank which was initially at equilibrium pressure-wise, provided hot water. But it couldn't keep up with the demand- there was hot water in the tank but not enough incoming pressure and flow to force it out in the volume needed- the inlet valve worked just like a flow restrictor. Since you have a new hot water heater, I'll bet you have a problem with the inlet valve or problem with the supply line running to the hot water heater. Is that place plumbed with PEX- if the inlet valve is open all the way, maybe there is a kink in the PEX somewhere or a second valve. Since it happened all of the sudden, maybe there is another valve, maybe one that is accessible to another tenant and he closed it most of the way. It can be difficult to test the pressure because initially, until there is a call for hot water, everything is in equilibrium at the same pressure- its a volume issue anyway. There could be a restriction on the outlet side too, but that is less likely since you initially get satisfactory hot water volume, but that would act the same way.

You may not notice much change in flow because your shower valve is probably balanced and making up for the loss of hot water volume by increasing the cold.

 

[Skymaster]

Allen: 2 great minds :gar-Bi see earlier post of mine; IE look at the cold system :rotflm::rotflm:
if cold checks than electric all i can think of

 

[petebucy4638]

Sorry I didn't read this thread earlier. A friend had the EXACT SAME PROBLEM with the EXACT SAME SYMPTOMs.

Water started out hot then got colder as time went on- it seemed to them like they were running out of hot water. They initially thought it just affected the shower until I started to troubleshoot- we verified it happened all over the house if there was a large enough call for hot water.

I went down to their basement and opened up the inlet valve on the hot water heater- it was about 85%+ closed. What was happening, is when there was a call for hot water, the HW tank which was initially at equilibrium pressure-wise, provided hot water. But it couldn't keep up with the demand- there was hot water in the tank but not enough incoming pressure and flow to force it out in the volume needed- the inlet valve worked just like a flow restrictor. Since you have a new hot water heater, I'll bet you have a problem with the inlet valve or problem with the supply line running to the hot water heater. Is that place plumbed with PEX- if the inlet valve is open all the way, maybe there is a kink in the PEX somewhere or a second valve. Since it happened all of the sudden, maybe there is another valve, maybe one that is accessible to another tenant and he closed it most of the way. It can be difficult to test the pressure because initially, until there is a call for hot water, everything is in equilibrium at the same pressure- its a volume issue anyway. There could be a restriction on the outlet side too, but that is less likely since you initially get satisfactory hot water volume, but that would act the same way.

You may not notice much change in flow because your shower valve is probably balanced and making up for the loss of hot water volume by increasing the cold.

That would not explain why he had adequate hot water for twenty minutes then it suddenly dropped off. The pressure in a water heater is dependent on the water that enters it from the intake line. If you turn the intake off, there is virtually no pressure in a water heater, unless something is wrong an it is producing steam.

Pete

 

[ErnieM]

Sorry I can't help - I know absolutely nothing about water heaters (among many other things). However, I'm following this thread very carefully because I love a good mystery!

Ernie

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

That would not explain why he had adequate hot water for twenty minutes then it suddenly dropped off. The pressure in a water heater is dependent on the water that enters it from the intake line. If you turn the intake off, there is virtually no pressure in a water heater, unless something is wrong an it is producing steam.

Pete

With the inlet valve ALMOST closed you will indeed have hot water, it will taper off in just a few minutes- Trent didn't say in "suddenly dropped off" , he said " . . . we had to turn the temperature knob in the shower about 1/8 further than we used to to achieve the same temperature, and from there the temperature would continue to drop so we would have to keep turning it up until it just got cold." In another post he said it would take "10 to 15 minutes each, 20 to 30 minutes total" showering. I suspect that if the first person to take a shower wasn't already experiencing a decline in temp he was soon going to. The first person had the possible benefit of hot water in the lines. The second person to take a shower had the benefit of the system returning to equilibrium, but likely experienced a quicker decline in temp.

Again, since the shower mixing valve is attempting to maintain constant flow, it is making up for a shortage of hot water volume with cold water- hence the starting position of the valve 1/8" farther towards hot, but the end result is the same. I'm still betting on poor supply, mostly closed or partially blocked HWH inlet valve, or an anti-scold or other valve restricting the outlet side of the (new) HWH.

Come on Trent, time for an update. Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Skymaster]

Alan: Man u r making my brain hurt :rotflm::rotflm: . OK here is a list of possibility's:
with your restricted inlet theory :gar-Bi;
1: IF ball valve handle stripped and valve not fully open
2. Gate Valve; gate broken from stem and only partially open
3. regular stop and waste: washer broken off stem and flopping loose and blocking flow
4: Installer never removed or just punched hole in the plastic plug in the inlet.

thats all I can think of, anybody else ? :gar-La;:gar-La;:gar-La;

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Overly zealous and careless application of teflon tape?

 

[Skymaster]

Alan: NICEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! :gar-Bi

 

[yanmarman2007]

do you have a single or dual element. It would not be uncommon to install a new water heater and burn out the upper element because of an air pocket or turning it on before completely full of water. You can use a meter to check it.

 

[Truefire]

OK folks, I am officially baffled. :confused_ The maintenance guys replaced our old water heater with a brand new one (same size, etc) and the hot water STILL runs out after two showers (10 to 15 minutes each, 20 to 30 minutes total). The tank is located in our laundry room, which is heated, so I don't think it has anything to do with the colder weather. If anyone has any ideas, I am all ears.... :help::help::help::help::help:

Trent, it sounds to me like you have a water leak somewhere along your hot water pipes feeding your bath room or perhaps some form of blockage issue contained within a valve or the lines themselves.

Trent first things first: Do you know what type of pipes are underneath your house, do you have PEX pipe which is the plastic piping with compressed fittings, PVC type piping or ordinary copper pipes? Many forms of compressed type fittings apart from copper fittings are notorious for leaks so that might be a first place to check. Grab a flashlight, Don some old coveralls, crawl underneath your house and and just crawl along your hot water lines feeding your bathroom rendering a very thorough inspection.

Another thing you can do to check for potential leaks in your water service anywhere within your house of any magnitude is to check at your water metering device, if you are on community water or township water. Make sure no toilet, sink or washer is running inside your house, basically make sure all water is turned off and you know that it is. Go to your meter and check the guage, there will be a small central star shaped apparatus in the center of the guage, this should not be spinning if all of your water is turned off inside your residence. If it is spinning noticeably it is a tell-tale sign that you have a leak somewhere under your house. Sometimes it may move a little which is just fluctuating pressure in the service but if it is consistently moving at a set speed than you might need to go about hunting for a leak source.

Now, the next thing is there very well could be some form of blockage from within your pipes. Chances are if you changed your water heater, the other heater was old and the interior of the tank was deteriorated somewhat thus creating the potential for particles to enter your hot water line and they may have gathered in a fitting somewhere like a 90 degree elbow, valve housign, etc;

Flush your system thoroughly by opening all of the your hot sources, throughout your house all at one time.

Now if you are still having problems i would say it is contained within your shower head, i will be willing to bet that particles are blocking the fine orifices in the interior portions of the shower head thus blocking your water flow.

The best way to clean this out is to completely remove the head, either replace it or soak it in a bowl of vinegar for a while then rinse thoroughly. Sometimes upon closer inspection you will actually be able to see the small specks of metallic particles blocking your orifices in the head and can remove them with a small pick of some sort, but removing is still your best bet.

Please keep us posted. I am certain we can get to the bottom of this without you having to pay out ohter additonal monies right away.

Chris