Water Based Poly over Dyed Surface?

[Woodsaw]

I just dyed the surface of a TV Stand. I intend to apply water based ploy afterward. My question: Do I need to apply a sealer coat in between? Will the water based poly smear the water soluble dye?

Thanks for any help.

Qui

 

[DaveO]

I would think that you should be alright just applying the WB topcoat. But I would use a barrier coat of shellac just to be sure.
Dave

 

[pslamp32]

Why not just use the dye as a toner and add directly to the poly? If you choose to do it your way I would definitely use shellac sealcoat. My favorite method is adding the dye to the shellac to desired finish color. Spray on and dries super quick. You can easily do multiple coats in and afternoon if you want to build the finish. Then I spray finish with Target USL. Quick, easy foolproof. Trust me, I've tried every combo known to man and failed at most! LOL.:rotflm:

edit : oops, missed that you already dyed. In this case I recommend using a sealcoat if you use water-poly. I also recommend spraying to achieve an atomized(sp) topcoat. It will dry quicker and avoid any streaking of the color with the use of a brush or wiping rag.

 

[Travis Porter]

IMO, no it should not smear the dye. The dye is very very small particles and has an inter-molecular bond with the wood particles so you should be good.

BTW, I happened to read that in one of my finishing books last night.

 

[Woodsaw]

Thanks for all the great suggestions so far. Can I add the dyes directly to shellac? Will the alcohol dissolve the water soluble dyes?

Qui

 

[Travis Porter]

Depends on the dye. I know for Transtint the answer is yes, but I am not familiar with others.

As for doing the mix of the dye in the shellac or finish, I have personally had so so results. Officially, it is called toning, and I have found it difficult to maintain a consistent color doing it that way. I have been spraying, and either I get it too dark or too light in places. Then, when I do my scuff sanding say at 320 or 400 grit to smooth it I knock all the finish off on the corners and such and I have not been very happy.

FWIW, I started doing the dye in the finish on the cabinet project I have been doing and have since switched to spraying the dye mixed with water, knocking down the raised grain, spraying a second coat, and then spraying finish. At least for me, that works pretty well. Pslamp seems to have found the ticket with mixing the dye with the shellac/finish so he may have solutions that I have not yet stumbled upon.

 

[pslamp32]

Yup, transtint all the way. I go light with the dye and build the coats to get the desired final tint. Works great for me. Here's some of my results.

I'm definitely no finish expert but I am an 'expert' in trial and error (mostly error). I spent like 2 months trying every combo I could think of for tinting wood. Spray, wiping, brushing, polycrylic, oil-based, shellac, laquer etc. What worked best for me was dilute transtint in shellac sealcoat followed by the topcoat of USL. Quick easy and good, durable results. At least to my eyes. :icon_thum

 

[jeff...]

Why not just use the dye as a toner and add directly to the poly? If you choose to do it your way I would definitely use shellac sealcoat. My favorite method is adding the dye to the shellac to desired finish color. Spray on and dries super quick. You can easily do multiple coats in and afternoon if you want to build the finish. Then I spray finish with Target USL. Quick, easy foolproof. Trust me, I've tried every combo known to man and failed at most! LOL.:rotflm:

edit : oops, missed that you already dyed. In this case I recommend using a sealcoat if you use water-poly. I also recommend spraying to achieve an atomized(sp) topcoat. It will dry quicker and avoid any streaking of the color with the use of a brush or wiping rag.

What He said :thumbs_up

 

[jeff...]

Yup, transtint all the way. I go light with the dye and build the coats to get the desired final tint. Works great for me. Here's some of my results.

I'm definitely no finish expert but I am an 'expert' in trial and error (mostly error). I spent like 2 months trying every combo I could think of for tinting wood. Spray, wiping, brushing, polycrylic, oil-based, shellac, laquer etc. What worked best for me was dilute transtint in shellac sealcoat followed by the topcoat of USL. Quick easy and good, durable results. At least to my eyes. :icon_thum

Yep again what he said :thumbs_up

 

[pslamp32]

LOL! It's actually quite ironic that I'm offering finishing advice and people are actually agreeing. I've read every book and asked so many questions it's ridiculous. Honestly for me the solution was MULTIPLE experiments. Advice is great but everybodies skill, equipment and shop conditions are so variable that results were as well. I was looking for simple, quick, appealing and durable. When I finally came up with the 'formula' that worked for me it became my 'grail'. Now I use the same method religiously with the only variable being whether or not I add tint. I've been very happy with the results on all wood species.

 

[jeff...]

LOL! It's actually quite ironic that I'm offering finishing advice and people are actually agreeing. I've read every book and asked so many questions it's ridiculous. Honestly for me the solution was MULTIPLE experiments. Advice is great but everybodies skill, equipment and shop conditions are so variable that results were as well. I was looking for simple, quick, appealing and durable. When I finally came up with the 'formula' that worked for me it became my 'grail'. Now I use the same method religiously with the only variable being whether or not I add tint. I've been very happy with the results on all wood species.

Yep - what he said :thumbs_up :gar-La;

Seriously translucent toner coats in between sealer and clear coats is the only way I know of to product consistent results. Stain is just that, stain and it's very difficult to archive any consistency. I may be a lone man shouting from the mountain top but STAIN is a BAD 5 LETTER WORD

 

[pslamp32]

My opinion and experience as well. I'll never go back to stain.

 

[Woodman2k]

What is the line," topcoat of USL" refering to? Lacquer?

 

[pslamp32]

Yes. Target Ultima Spray Lacquer. It's water-based and awesome IMO.
http://www.targetcoatings.com/oxford-spray-lacquer.html