Treecycle America - TreeID

[MikeH]

A friend of mine in Charlotte has come up with a great idea for utilizing urban trees that are cut down for whatever reason. If this can catch on it will save so many trees from going to landfills.

https://treecycleamerica.market/treeid.html

Thanks,
Mike

 

[mkepke]

I like the idea, but am struck by the notion that "TreeID" means more..wait for it..paperwork.

-Mark

 

[MikeH]

I like the idea, but am struck by the notion that "TreeID" means more..wait for it..paperwork.

-Mark

Haha! I think the idea is great though. It carries down all the way to the woodworker so the person knows a little history behind the wood product. It's slowly gaining traction.

 

[CrealBilly]

A friend of mine in Charlotte has come up with a great idea for utilizing urban trees that are cut down for whatever reason. If this can catch on it will save so many trees from going to landfills.

https://treecycleamerica.market/treeid.html

Thanks,
Mike

Mike I left a post over there about certification requirements. The story of a tree does offer a lot of advantages. But having everyone certified from felling to final product seems like an administrative nightmare and I'm questioning if it's even doable. The more folks that "touch" the tree along the way the greater chance the certification chain will be broken. Especially if certification requirements are laborious/expensive. This system of registration may work for a guy like me though, since I generally take a tree from the stump to finished product. The fact is every tree tells a story some more intriguing than others.

For example in the next few weeks I'm going to be taking down a huge maple. This maple tree was planted in 1901 by a very prominent member of the community. There are "mishap" photos of the tree along the years that would be interesting to share. All this history "may" make the timber more marketable and desirable.

All that being said and depending on the requirements. I may be willing to participate in a pilot and offer feedback to help your friend work out the kinks.

I know old historically trees are right up Scott Smiths alley though.

 

[MikeH]

Mike I left a post over there about certification requirements. The story of a tree does offer a lot of advantages. But having everyone certified from felling to final product seems like an administrative nightmare and I'm questioning if it's even doable. The more folks that "touch" the tree along the way the greater chance the certification chain will be broken. Especially if certification requirements are laborious/expensive. This system of registration may work for a guy like me though, since I generally take a tree from the stump to finished product. The fact is every tree tells a story some more intriguing than others.

For example in the next few weeks I'm going to be taking down a huge maple. This maple tree was planted in 1901 by a very prominent member of the community. There are "mishap" photos of the tree along the years that would be interesting to share. All this history "may" make the timber more marketable and desirable.

I know old historically trees are right up Scott Smiths alley.

Jeff,
The certification process is very simple. Sign up and agree to keep the treeID number on each piece of wood cut or worked. That's it. Damon will have an app available very soon where you enter about 5 pieces of information about the tree including type and address where is was located and the TreeID is assigned. I spent a day with Scott last week and he is the one who introduced me to Damon. :gar-Bi

I think it can work.

Mike

 

[CrealBilly]

Jeff,
The certification process is very simple. Sign up and agree to keep the treeID number on each piece of wood cut or worked. That's it. Damon will have an app available very soon where you enter about 5 pieces of information about the tree including type and address where is was located and the TreeID is assigned. I spent a day with Scott last week and he is the one who introduced me to Damon. :gar-Bi

I think it can work.

Mike

So what do the certified tags look like, how much do they cost, how are they numbered, how many are issued, how are they attached to the log/lumber?

You mentioned attached to "each piece" one log is one piece but that one piece becomes many pieces after leaving the sawmill. Does the certification process require the Miller to tag and document each piece as it's coming off the mill? What about culls, how is that handled? Culls can happen at each step of processing for various reasons.

Please don't think I'm against the whole idea, just poking and prodding to flush out potential problem areas... It's mainly what I do for a living.

Is there any documentation that describes the whole program including various processes, procedures? I would be interested in reviewing them and providing feedback.

When establishing a requirement like tags in this instance. It really helps to ask why upto 5 times to flush out the justification for the requirement and potential issues with the requirement. It also helps to ask yourself who, what, when, where, and how. When a requirement is justified.

 

[CrealBilly]

Another thought came to mind... Assuming the tags are inexpensive it would be nice if the tags were barcoded and the mobile application were able to scan the tags bar code and register the piece in the website.

Think "inventory management system" here, when you start to peel back the layers - that's what certification process really is... at least based on my limited understanding of the whole thing.

 

[CDPeters]

It really helps to ask why up to 5 times to flush out the justification for the requirement and potential issues with the requirement.

Ah yes, the good 'ole "5-Why Analysis". Bane of my existence lately...

I agree, seems like a good idea, but the webpage is short on process & requirement documentation/explanation...

I suppose at the log/milling stage, the tag could be simply a logo/barcode (I like that idea!) attached to the log / boards - think like the little tags stapled to lumber ends at the big boxes. But at the finished product stage, how would the stamp be applied - brand? ink-pad stamp? Sharpie? Laser-engraved? All of the Above? None of the Above? If the barcode is to be applied at the finished product stage, that would complicate things some...

Just thinking out loud here.

When I make things from material that I know the provenance of and where that provenance is "special", I frequently include a card with the item if it is given away / sold which spells that out. My projects binder also includes the same information with pictures of the final piece.

 

[MikeH]

Another thought came to mind... Assuming the tags are inexpensive it would be nice if the tags were barcoded and the mobile application were able to scan the tags bar code and register the piece in the website.

Think "inventory management system" here, when you start to peel back the layers - that's what certification process really is... at least based on my limited understanding of the whole thing.

Jeff,
These questions have to be asked for sure, but there aren't really any physical tags provided. It is a number assigned to the tree and each piece once cut should have that TreeID number written somewhere on it to keep the process going. From what Damon told me they also have some kind of stamp or branding iron to be used by the woodworker for the final product. I'm going to talk to him more and get more details. Maybe I can get him to join NCWW and he can better explain his vision.

HTH,
Mike

 

[MikeH]

This will explain more on the TreeID system: http://treecycleamerica.com/

 

[CrealBilly]

Jeff,
These questions have to be asked for sure, but there aren't really any physical tags provided. It is a number assigned to the tree and each piece once cut should have that TreeID number written somewhere on it to keep the process going. From what Damon told me they also have some kind of stamp or branding iron to be used by the woodworker for the final product. I'm going to talk to him more and get more details. Maybe I can get him to join NCWW and he can better explain his vision.

HTH,
Mike

Cool yea... I think it's a great idea and as a guy who makes smaller ones out of bigger ones - I can see a benefit to such a system as this.

But in order for it to be sucesesful it needs to be well thought trough and be made as easy as can be. Human nature - like it or not... if it's hard people are reluctant to voluntary follow, unless forced to or penalized (think drivers license, or taxes...) I don't think this will work well without physical tags being issued and controlled in some fashion. And there really needs to be some certification criteria defined or else the whole program will have no creditability whatsoever.

We have not even started talking about governance or compliance management yet either.

 

[CrealBilly]

Ah yes, the good 'ole "5-Why Analysis". Bane of my existence lately...

I agree, seems like a good idea, but the webpage is short on process & requirement documentation/explanation...

I suppose at the log/milling stage, the tag could be simply a logo/barcode (I like that idea!) attached to the log / boards - think like the little tags stapled to lumber ends at the big boxes. But at the finished product stage, how would the stamp be applied - brand? ink-pad stamp? Sharpie? Laser-engraved? All of the Above? None of the Above? If the barcode is to be applied at the finished product stage, that would complicate things some...

Just thinking out loud here.

When I make things from material that I know the provenance of and where that provenance is "special", I frequently include a card with the item if it is given away / sold which spells that out. My projects binder also includes the same information with pictures of the final piece.

You hit up on a lot of my thoughts here also... Good to know my thoughts are not out in left field... I personally believe there are two major requirements.

1) Certification, what will that look like cradle to grave?

2) Tags, this ensures proper identification, tracking and creditability or assurance.


BTW - You can thank Toyota for the 5 whys - a perfect example of a methodology that's so easy and simply stupid that its tremendously effective.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys

 

[MikeH]

Cool yea... I think it's a great idea and as a guy who makes smaller ones out of bigger ones - I can see a benefit to such a system as this.

But in order for it to be sucesesful it needs to be well thought trough and be made as easy as can be. Human nature - like it or not... if it's hard people are reluctant to voluntary follow, unless forced to or penalized (think drivers license, or taxes...) I don't think this will work well without physical tags being issued and controlled in some fashion. And there really needs to be some certification criteria defined or else the whole program will have no creditability whatsoever.

We have not even started talking about governance or compliance management yet either.

I completely agree! I'm headed to a job interview. Let's keep the conversation going. I want as much input on this as I can get so I get more involved with the whole process. Let's talk soon.

Mike

 

[CrealBilly]

This will explain more on the TreeID system: http://treecycleamerica.com/

Needs meat on the bones or no one will bite --->
http://treecycleamerica.com/treeid/index.htm

You got a lot of roles mentioned but no responsibilities defined - so at this stage of the game the program lacks creditability.

 

[CrealBilly]

I completely agree! I'm headed to a job interview. Let's keep the conversation going. I want as much input on this as I can get so I get more involved with the whole process. Let's talk soon.

Mike

Don't think you can't charge for a program like this... If it had a big enough benefits... You bet I would pay to be certified.

 

[CDPeters]

I had more thoughts...

Seems like the program as laid out so far starts with a municipality. What about other start-points... i.e. a sawyer who is sourcing a log from somewhere other that a "ceritified" tree service contracted by a municipality? Or a hobbyist (like me) that may recover a storm-damaged tree, saw it themselves and use most (or all) of the lumber themselves?

This is going to ramble a bit, but hang with me... In the starts-with-municipality scenario, In order for the front of the process to be effective, there has to be some incentive to the municipality other than being environmentally conscious. They are going to select a tree service vendor, most likely on a low-bid basis. Maybe that's a "certified" outfit, maybe not...

The tree-service gets a value-add by not having to pay dumping fees...
The sawyer gets a value-add in free logs...
The woodworker/woodshop/fabricator might get some benefit other than warm-fuzzy if the sawyer elects to sell at reduced price since he/she paid nothing for the logs.
The consumer's value-add is that they are contributing to sustainability.

But what if... there is a "reverse benefit". The sawyer, having got the logs free, agrees to contribute x cents/bdft back. The outfit producing a product agrees to contribute x percent. The stipulation being that the reverse contributions go back to the municipality with the specific requirement that the funds be used for local sustainability projects (i.e. cannot be put into "general funds"). This gives the municipality the incentive to use the certified service to start with.

I know some folks will say "sounds like a tax to me", or maybe even a "kickback"... and maybe it is not even a feasible thing to do, IDK.

And in the cases where the process does not start with the municipality, maybe the "reverse benefit" goes to a state forestry sustainability project, or the Nature Conservancy or something like that.

It's kinda like a retailer saying "x% of all sales benefit x charity".

OK guys - fire away - what am I not thinking about... I probably sound like a raving, tree-hugging lunatic, but I'm really not :eusa_doh:

 

[CDPeters]

Looking at the marketplace, some of the prices have me floored - ex. 2" x 8" x 9' Red Oak air dried for $27.87/bdft ???? And it's even showing signs of shake.

 

[CrealBilly]

I had more thoughts...

Seems like the program as laid out so far starts with a municipality. What about other start-points... i.e. a sawyer who is sourcing a log from somewhere other that a "ceritified" tree service contracted by a municipality? Or a hobbyist (like me) that may recover a storm-damaged tree, saw it themselves and use most (or all) of the lumber themselves?

This is going to ramble a bit, but hang with me... In the starts-with-municipality scenario, In order for the front of the process to be effective, there has to be some incentive to the municipality other than being environmentally conscious. They are going to select a tree service vendor, most likely on a low-bid basis. Maybe that's a "certified" outfit, maybe not...

The tree-service gets a value-add by not having to pay dumping fees...
The sawyer gets a value-add in free logs...
The woodworker/woodshop/fabricator might get some benefit other than warm-fuzzy if the sawyer elects to sell at reduced price since he/she paid nothing for the logs.
The consumer's value-add is that they are contributing to sustainability.

But what if... there is a "reverse benefit". The sawyer, having got the logs free, agrees to contribute x cents/bdft back. The outfit producing a product agrees to contribute x percent. The stipulation being that the reverse contributions go back to the municipality with the specific requirement that the funds be used for local sustainability projects (i.e. cannot be put into "general funds"). This gives the municipality the incentive to use the certified service to start with.

I know some folks will say "sounds like a tax to me", or maybe even a "kickback"... and maybe it is not even a feasible thing to do, IDK.

And in the cases where the process does not start with the municipality, maybe the "reverse benefit" goes to a state forestry sustainability project, or the Nature Conservancy or something like that.

It's kinda like a retailer saying "x% of all sales benefit x charity".

OK guys - fire away - what am I not thinking about... I probably sound like a raving, tree-hugging lunatic, but I'm really not :eusa_doh:

What may be good marketing strategy for a final product produced by a woodworker... might be a stamp saying something like "Made from Certified Treecycle America Lumber #####).

Then the whole history is searchable by the unique number (#####) on the website.

Let's face it... People just get a warm and fuzzy about "cycling" irregardless of what kind of cycling it is... Heck I even feel good about reusing or cycling as it were.

 

[Touchwood]

Maybe take some ideas out of the cattle ID system using RFID tags. ??

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/food/foodsafety/facts/10-011.htm

Thinking about some adaptation of that...getting it into a computerized system where ID could be read on a smartphone,,,no paperwork. RFID tags are getting pretty universal.

 

[CrealBilly]

Maybe take some ideas out of the cattle ID system using RFID tags. ??

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/food/foodsafety/facts/10-011.htm

Thinking about some adaptation of that...getting it into a computerized system where ID could be read on a smartphone,,,no paperwork. RFID tags are getting pretty universal.

Don your the perfect person to ask. If let's say a rocker that you build is made of historical lumber (with a documented and certified history) would it make your rocker more marketable? I want to believe the answer is a resounding YES.