Traditional/historic furniture vs. modern/post modern/abstract...

[Mike Davis]

I'm just starting to build furniture on a small basis and wondering which way to lean in my studies.

I like the more traditional styles, but there seems to be a lot of great makers out there and not so many buyers.

I also like abstract styles, I like the freeform, slab, bent laminations, etc.

Any thoughts? Is one market growing more than the others? Would I be wasting my time to pursue furniture building at all?

 

[Hmerkle]

I think you are asking the wrong audience - your Facebook group might work better, although your FB friends group, may not be broad enough...

Just my opinion...

 

[Mike Davis]

I don't have any friends, that's why I asked here...

 

[Henry W]

Re: an answer, but not to the question you asked...

Mike: I am not going to answer your question, but answer one you did not ask....

Aren't you really asking how to sell/market custom made goods?

Or would you be making stuff on spec? If it is spec stuff, then figure out where the galleries are that carry this type of product. I can likely come up with one in Raleigh (forget the name but could eventually think of it). Only other one I know is the gallery right behind the Asheville Grove Park Inn (name escapes me); that is a national known gallery with very high end and well done furniture. Those avenues requires 40-60% commission, as I understand it.

As woodworkers, we are mostly inclined toward the making of things. Few of us are really inclined to the sales or marketing of what we make. But the success of the venture requires much more than expertise at making - it requires a good sales channel. No matter what your product, sales avenues and marketing decisions will determine the revenue (payback).

There are craft fairs and flea markets - neither of which I could recommend (not for furniture at least). People do it, but to me it is a long road... Higher end 'art and craft shows' get expensive to attend (travel, accommodations, entry fees), but at least for most juried shows there is exposure to the right type of clientele.

In any venture for selling product I believe that a simple website, or FB site, is critical - but it has to be well executed with good (almost great?) pictures. If it does not exude quality, then don't bother because you are shooting yourself in the foot (in my opinion).

I would pursue avenues like "Custom Made" (I think that was the site name) where clients submit "requests for proposal" for what they'd like to have made; makers then submit bids on making it. If your bid is not selected, then no harm done (except the time taken to prep a bid). Seemed like the prices being paid were at least reasonable for custom made stuff (it is not all furniture). That is at least a marketplace where people are specifically looking for custom work. There is plenty of high end work being bought and sold there.

Other have suggested that interior designers or decorators have the type of clientele that can afford and appreciate custom made goods. Get to know some of them (I never figured out how to do that, but I bet you could).

Anyways - I hope that helps, even if that was not the question you asked....

Henry

 

[Mike Davis]

Re: an answer, but not to the question you asked...

That was going to be my next question in about a year.

 

[FredP]

I don't have any friends, that's why I asked here...

:rotflm: thanks mike! I thought I was the only one without friends.

 

[Jeff]

Re: an answer, but not to the question you asked...

Henry raises excellent points for your consideration.

1. You (and most of the rest of us) are small fish in a big ocean as far as selling high quality furniture of any design. I deliberately didn't use the word "custom" aka commission.

2. What do you enjoy building rather than what would you try to build in order to fit a market and hope to sell it?

The former is fun for you while the latter may squeeze you into a mold that can be a black hole.

3. We have lots of master craftsman amongst us here at NCWW; a few names of fellow members who have specific expertise in various designs and/or period furniture...

DanMart77, Larry Rose, Matt Furjanic, WalnutJerry, yada, yada, yada...

 

[Bill Clemmons]

Re: an answer, but not to the question you asked...

Mike, as you know, I make furniture, but not for sale. Just for family members. In those cases, I usually make whatever the customer (family member) wants. I don't have to give the style a great deal of thought.

But over the years I've been interested to know how "Professional" furniture makers arrived at their current business model. In most cases it seems they started out making whatever their customers wanted, and were willing to pay for. In many cases this included basic cabinets. Over time they found a particular style that was more marketable than others, and gravitated towards that as their specialty. Whether that was what they really enjoyed making, or just because it paid the bills, I don't know.

 

[SteveHall]

Re: an answer, but not to the question you asked...

Modern architectural styles are certainly on the rise. GenX and Millennials want urban lifestyles, modern design, and environmentally sensitive products.

Whatever those things really mean.

I think woodworkers are probably more aware than anyone that high quality joinery and materials are the most sustainable way to use a "harvested piece of carbon sequestration" so that the investment ("environmental sacrifice") lasts longer than a generation.

Unfortunately, if you're trying to sell furniture to these generations, you're competing with plastic laminate and melamine. Theoretically, the Boomers were the last wealthy generation and we'll all be lucky to have any wood furniture in another 20 years at the rate plastic and resin are taking over furnishings and product design. Can you buy anything made of wood in a department store, shopping mall, or colossal furnishings store today?

I love good modern design, but it insists on high quality materials. Danish furniture is amazing. It also costs a fortune. I don't know how to reconcile those two things in a consumer driven market. For myself, I don't work for clients that are looking for cheap solutions and focus on the few looking for quality. I try to behave the same way, purchasing the occasional quality items with generational lifespans. I think there's probably enough demand to support small, smart shops that do great work. At least I hope so.

 

[danmart77]

Mike its a long road. As you know I am wondering along on the period path. How did you wind up there? Repairs and studying 18th century pieces. Today, I do 80% commission work from referrals. This is where the money is found for me. I have never sold a single piece to another "woodworker" in my journey. Most of the time I'm told that they could do the same thing with their new dovetail router jig.

Example of commission work once you are known:
Family piece in an estate settlement. Three children and one piece. Dan can you make 2 of these for the unhappy siblings? You get to duplicate some incredible furniture that you would never get to touch otherwise. Additionally, I have over 50 plans/measurements of things not found in any book. That counts.

The faster money is in quick and dirty case work but the CNC world is closing in so fast it blows my mind.

All of the really good craftsman I know from the late 70's augment their living by teaching. Some have schools of their own like Lonnie Bird and others travel all over the world like Garrett Hack. But its important to point out-- they are not pushing furniture out the door to pay the bills on a full time schedule.

Advice: keep your day time job amigo till the requests pile up.

Dan

Two of these and I get to keep one for myself.​

 

[Rwe2156]

The idea of actually producing something for someone and making a buck appeals to many of us.

No doubt the market for reproduction antique furniture is pretty small. That being said I had an idea of one day doing the same thing and think maybe furniture repair might be one way to get a foot in the door, or at least get exposed to a clientele who might go for a $2K repro piece.

The other is find a historic area of town and see if the is any kind of art/farmers market which you could display a few pi

Getting in with a few interior designers is another option as an outlet for more modern eclectic pieces.

Its a tough market. Most people have no concept of quality furniture or what it takes to build something. They think IKEA or Ethan Allen is where the best furniture is.

 

[danmart77]

The idea of actually producing something for someone and making a buck appeals to many of us.

No doubt the market for reproduction antique furniture is pretty small. That being said I had an idea of one day doing the same thing and think maybe furniture repair might be one way to get a foot in the door, or at least get exposed to a clientele who might go for a $2K repro piece.

The other is find a historic area of town and see if the is any kind of art/farmers market which you could display a few pi

Getting in with a few interior designers is another option as an outlet for more modern eclectic pieces.

Its a tough market. Most people have no concept of quality furniture or what it takes to build something. They think IKEA or Ethan Allen is where the best furniture is.

1. Making a buck and making a living wage are different. I do repair work for customers for as low as 20 bucks/hr. This will not keep the lights burning long. I only do that when they do not have a dead line to get it back. If they do want it yesterday and its not an expensive piece its doubled on the spot. That's still cheap for an hourly repair rate.

2. Small repro market. This is true but it varies enormously with where you live. Refinishing and touch up work on original antique furniture has taken a serious nose dive in the last 10 years. With the flood of house renovation shows and hosts suggesting painting everything with a "bright glossy color" you just can not imagine some of the 5k furniture I have seen completely ruined in one day. I mean lost here and I see them AFTER they are ruined. Its painful.

3. Before you get too fired up about the opportunities in your local area, take a look at the SAPFM Society of American Period Furniture Makers site. You have to join to see the full spectrum of what is being made today by amateurs and pros. Still there's a good bit of info to get a feel for whether you want to do this type of work.

From my position to day, I feel like a shoe repairman hoping more folks will return to leather soled shoes. With Nike building a colossal empire of rubber for this generation, its just not likely. Sadly, furniture making/woodworking in America is on a similar path in my view.

A couple of thoughts that might be helpful in today's market:

1. More people want to sit down than go out in the forest and shoot longrifles. So I make lots of chairs and few flintlocks. Building chairs leads to making tables. Some times the other way around. Find a way to deliver 8 chairs in 2 weeks and you will have sales. If you need a week to make a chair, you won't be making sets. Simple.

2. Doing period correct repairs will get your name on the antique dealers wall. This is big if you want to go in that direction.

3. Make sure your wife has a good job.

later

 

[Roy G]

Dan makes a good point, specifically No. 3 of his "couple of thoughts." Also, I once had a guy working in a wood shop tell me woodworking is a great hobby. Not the best way to make money.

Roy G

 

[Willemjm]

Rubberwood (Spent Latex trees pressure treated with insecticide) and veneered particle board is the new trend from Asia. The consumer of today is more price orientated and has little understanding of the difference between mass produced furniture from Asia and high end custom work. It follows that most consumers will pay less for the item in a furniture store, than only material costs for a high end piece.

I spent four months in Europe a couple of years ago and made an effort over week-ends to go and find high end furniture stores compared to here. They are no more. Everything is either IKEA or something similar, imported and assembled by either the customer, or the retailer.

I do select commission work for a very small niche market and treat it as purely a retirement hobby. A whole lot of folks approach me for building something similar to what they either saw in a catalog, or a furniture store. In 95% of the cases I encourage them to go buy from the store, as using inexpensive materials is not worth the time and love we put into this art. In most cases, my material costs only, would approach the price of something purchased at Crate and Barrel for an example. The latter ships their items from Asia and it is either assembled in the store, or by the customer.

Where there is good money to make in this industry, is as a freelance designer, using the latest graphic arts software packages. It is however based on what you can offer.

The challenge we face is that most young folks are satisfied with the IKEA mass produced designs, while the more mature group who still appreciate high end and period pieces are at a stage in their lives, where their homes are furnished and they are no longer in the market.

 

[Mike Davis]

I'll probably just keep doing the oddball prototype jobs that I have done in the past...

 

[Mark Johnson]

Re: an answer, but not to the question you asked...

I found this post on the Wood Whisperer today and thought it fit well in this discussion. http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/why-i-dont-offer-woodworking-business-advice/ Somehow it does not seem right that very few can actually make any money at this. I know there are several exceptions on this site to that. My own experience is that those who see the work I do are very impressed and like the designs and products: BUT, do not buy.

 

[JackLeg]

Re: an answer, but not to the question you asked...

Steve Hall has hit on an important point, I believe. I was just talking today with my Dad's long time auctioneer partner about current day auctions and what sells. Antiques are definitely "low priority" with the current generations of Millennials and Xers. They'd rather have something contemporary or even repurposed. Their desire for historically beautiful and hand made furniture is very low.

Good luck on your endeavors. I know you have the skills, just hope you can market to the right audience to make a buck or two.

:notworthy::notworthy:

Modern architectural styles are certainly on the rise. GenX and Millennials want urban lifestyles, modern design, and environmentally sensitive products.

Whatever those things really



mean.

I think woodworkers are probably more aware than anyone that high quality joinery and materials are the most sustainable way to use a "harvested piece of carbon sequestration" so that the investment ("environmental sacrifice") lasts longer than a generation.

Unfortunately, if you're trying to sell furniture to these generations, you're competing with plastic laminate and melamine. Theoretically, the Boomers were the last wealthy generation and we'll all be lucky to have any wood furniture in another 20 years at the rate plastic and resin are taking over furnishings and product design. Can you buy anything made of wood in a department store, shopping mall, or colossal furnishings store today?

I love good modern design, but it insists on high quality materials. Danish furniture is amazing. It also costs a fortune. I don't know how to reconcile those two things in a consumer driven market. For myself, I don't work for clients that are looking for cheap solutions and focus on the few looking for quality. I try to behave the same way, purchasing the occasional quality items with generational lifespans. I think there's probably enough demand to support small, smart shops that do great work. At least I hope so.

 

[Mike Davis]

Re: an answer, but not to the question you asked...

My wife is very good at spotting trends and forecasting styles, I'll go by her advice. Hasn't missed yet. But I'll throw a few of my pieces in the mix just for my pleasure.

 

[Skymaster]

As said above today's buyers have strict and specific criteria CHEAP FAST nothing else matters.

I started out in this business over 30 yes ago in new construction as a trimmer.I watched the market start out with a house that had stain grade trim, crown and dental, 6 panel wood doors, paneling, and pricing about 1.50 a square ft,IE 3000 square ft home about 4000 to 4500 with kitchen.
Within 20 yes the same Sq ft builders were paying 1000 dollars. NO crown paneling, Masonite doors, finger joint trim and 1/2 putty joints. Quality workmanship today is a no win. CHEAP CHEAP is the motto.
Regards folks calling for a pc or cabinet they see on a day show, I have had people approach me with pics of stuff they saw it Home Depot and expected me to build it CUSTOM cheaper

 

[Jeff]

Re: an answer, but not to the question you asked...

My own experience is that those who see the work I do are very impressed and like the designs and products: BUT, do not buy.

That's it in a nut shell. Thanks for posting the wood whisperer link. It's a lengthy and brutally honest statement that parallels your statement above.