tools to get started, charlotte nc questions

[crypticslaughter]

Hey everyone, I've had this little urge to start carving wood and it's been growing for the past couple of months. I'm not particularly artistic, but woodcarving seems like it would be a lot of fun and relax my mind.

I was wondering if anyone had some suggestions about which tools to get started. I see some starter kits, but those seem like they have too many tools for what I want to do. I just want to carve little characters, maybe something abstract but still small, and I just realized I need a spoon rest so maybe that eventually too.

I see a bunch of gouge tools, and I think maybe I'll just need one of those and a couple of knives (I think carving with a knife would be the most satisfying for some reason). Do you have any suggestions about what I need to start?

I've also got questions about Charlotte. Is there anywhere that I can buy nice tools here? What about wood, what kind of wood would be the best and where would be a good place to get it?

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

 

[timf67]

I am not a carver "in the round" so to speak, but I have done some chip carving. I do find it fun, relaxing and a low investment in tools (basically two knives are all you need).

As for Charlotte woodworking stores, Klingspors closed about a week ago, but Woodcraft in Matthews is still open. You can go see tools in person, and they have a decent wood selection. Then there are always the mail-order houses too.

 

[CarvedTones]

If you want to carve with a knife, you can actually start with a utility knife. Some people even stick with that for the long haul. Basswod is good carving wood and can usually be found at craft stores or in craft sections of large discount stores as well as at woodworking stores. If you decide you want to do mallet and gouge carving, that is an entirely different conversation. But for knives, my advice is to start simple. I do use a purpose made carving knife and sharpen it, but a utility knife with a sharp blade works just as well.

 

[PeteM]

I would strongly suggest checking out the Little Shavers site.

http://www.littleshavers.com/BegKit.html

His beginners kit is excellent for what you want to carve.
Also lots of other good info there.

pete

 

[CarvedTones]

I concur with Pete's advice; Rick at Little Shavers will treat you right.

I was just suggesting you try carving with a utility knife first because it is an easy way to find out if you will enjoy knife carving as much as you hope. here is a good Wiki article on doing a first carving with a utility knife:

http://www.wikihow.com/Begin-Woodcarving-with-a-Utility-Knife

If you want to learn to carve characters, prepare to waste an afternoon on this guy's YouTube page:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=whittler0507&view=videos&sort=v

I get a kick out of one thing there. The 4 videos on carving a 5 minute wizard have a combined running time of about a half hour...

 

[crypticslaughter]

Thanks for the help guys.
I'm going to get a utility knife, a glove, and some wood this afternoon (I found a place that sells some wood). I think first I want to make Pan playing a pan-flute.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Drew - You might want to read through this thread:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/f33/carving-tool-recommendations-23956/

The OP asked a very similar question.

Regarding the two things you said you wanted to carve - small abstract figures and a spoon rest, my take on it is that those will likely require 2 different sets of tools. Carving the depressions in a spoon rest are very easy with a traditional gouge - not so easy with a knife, though a "hook knife" can be used.

For the abstract figures, I'm guessing these would be similar to the sorts of caricatures that are very popular. Most local folks I know of that specialize in this type of carving use knives, though one can use traditional carving tools effectively for this "in the round" type of project as well.

Personally, I like flex-cut knives. The steel is superb - they will hold an edge for a very long time. The handles are comfortable as well. Here's Flexcut's knife page on their website:

http://www.flexcut.com/products/cart.php?target=category&category_id=97

I'd recommend one of the larger sized pelican knives, a mini detail knife, and a hook knife - right handed if you're right handed, left handed if you're left handed.

Klingspor carries these, but I understand from a previous post that the Charlotte store closed. Woodcraft also carries them, and for this weekend (Saturday and Sunday), you get 15% off the purchase. Woodcraft also carries Pfiel traditional carving tools, which a lot of use like. For your spoon rest, I'd suggest a #7 16mm to rough out the shape, and a #5 16mm and #3 10mm to refine the interior and smooth out the tool marks from the #7. That's not the only combination that would do what you want, and depending on the scale of the spoon rest, you might find that Pfiel's front-bent spoon gouges will be more appropriate.

As for woods, there's lots of them that are appropriate. For caricature carving, most folks use basswood, and there's no better material than the stuff that Heinicke Brothers sells. Northern basswood is a good deal easier to carve than Appalachian basswood, which often has soft, punky spots:

http://www.heineckewood.com/

Basswood is a clear, white wood, so it's most often painted because it's kind of bland. If you want a prettier piece of wood for your spoon rest, I'd suggest mahogany (the genuine kind - african mahogany is difficult to carve). Mahogany is a medium-hard wood that offers a good balance between ease of carving (softer generally equals easier) and durability of the final product. Cherry and walnut are also appropriate, as is maple, but I would not recommend maple to start with - it's very, very hard.

Finally, butternut is a joy to carve and is a very attractive wood, if your small abstract figures are going to be naturally finished. Butternut is getting increasingly hard to get because of a blight, but if you can find some it's considerably easier to carve vs. its darker cousin, walnut.

 

[CarvedTones]

David,

With all due respect, my perspective on hook knives is a little different. My next one will be double beveled like this one:
http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_7_487/products_id/4810
rather than right handed like my current one. It's because I have found in some situations I want to cut on a pull stroke and some on a push. I have also been trying to school myself (with admittedly less than stellar results) to carve with either hand. The eyes on a face at the top of a staff give me fits if I insist on trying to carve them both right handed. Actually the whole side of the face that is on my left (the face's right side) is difficult.

 

[Makinsawdust]

Drew,
You might want to check out the carving classes at Woodcraft. I believe Dave Wood teaches the classes and he carves a lot of of the type things you say your interested in.
Rob

 

[crypticslaughter]

Thanks for all the great info, guys.
I was at a hobby store and all they had was balsa wood, but that stuff suuuuuuuuuucks for carving, hahaha. I think I'm just going to order some wood online or check out the store in matthews when I'm down there next.

 

[dkeller_nc]

David,

With all due respect, my perspective on hook knives is a little different. My next one will be double beveled like this one:
http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_7_487/products_id/4810
rather than right handed like my current one. It's because I have found in some situations I want to cut on a pull stroke and some on a push. I have also been trying to school myself (with admittedly less than stellar results) to carve with either hand. The eyes on a face at the top of a staff give me fits if I insist on trying to carve them both right handed. Actually the whole side of the face that is on my left (the face's right side) is difficult.

Carving's a really individual thing, particularly when it comes to tools, so your advice is well taken. Because I use both traditional carving tools and knives, I generally will reach for the traditional gouge when I need to excavate a large hollow like would be needed on a spoon rest, so my hook knife doesn't see a lot of action. It's quite handy, though, when the geometry of a carving does not allow access by a traditional gouge (usually, because the handle's too long and in the way - the hook knives are smaller tools).

 

[CarvedTones]

David,

Cariboo Blades makes hook knives that rival the gouge:
http://caribooblades.homestead.com/hookknives.html
The price is a bit steep, even compared to high end traditional carving tools. I would love to have a big #6, but $205 for one knife is a strain on my tool budget. Besides, then I would just have to get a small #5 and a medium #4 and...

They are very open about the process and have a nice page on making one yourself:
http://caribooblades.homestead.com/makingahook.html
So while I just said the price is steep, if you look at how much work goes into one, it is largely justified.

I go back and forth. Yesterday I was alternating between using my big Pfiel gouge and Stubai carving adze starting the cavity in one of those logs I am torturing. One advantage a big hook knife wood have is I could do it later at night without bothering others in the house; mallets sounds and hatchet/adze chopping carry. The two handed technique they show looks like it would remove a lot of wood quietly. It's funny; one of the reasons I got into carving was because I wanted to generate less noise and dust. I am thinking about putting my Weecher reciprocating handpiece up for sale as it could wake the dead (yeah, I know, power is another story, but the reciprocating carvers just make lots of mallet noise in very little time). Maybe I should get a urethane mallet.

 

[dkeller_nc]

"Maybe I should get a urethane mallet."

Definitely. Besides reducing the noise, they are far kinder to your carving tools than a traditional lignum carver's mallet or a metal striking tool.

But there's another advantage, though slight. Urethane mallets are somewhat of a "dead blow" instrument - more of the energy from the strike is transmitted to the carving tool than a striker that bounces.

If you decide to get one of these, I highly suggest that you get an authentic WoodJoy urethane mallet. There are some cheap chinese-made knockoffs floating around, but in my opinion, they're just that - cheap. In my hands, the balance is off, and I've seen one of these where the polymer has started to crack.

The Woodjoys come in two weights in the smaller size - 12 oz. and 18 oz. For bowl carving work, I'd recommend the 18 oz. It's a good balance between inertia transmitted to the carving tool and wearing your arm out. They also make a larger diameter mallet that's much heavier - 28 oz, I think. That's good to have to really take off some big chunks when roughing in a large 3-D carving, but I find it too heavy for smaller stuff.

 

[CarvedTones]

So is this one of the cheap knock offs:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=9880
I had my eye on that, but it bugs that they don't specify what that "composite material" is.

This one fits your description and is USA made:
http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_26_29/products_id/18

Klingspor's shows one with even less of a description and about the same price.

I have been tempted to stop at Overton's and get a big trailer roller and turn a handle.

EDIT - I forgot to say a quick search did not turn up the WoodJoy.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Apologies, Andy - I'm an idiot. Wood is Good is what I was referring to. I would actually suggest the 18 oz., small-head size if you're only going to buy one for now:

http://www.woodisgoodco.com/mallets.htm

The reason is that the smaller size can easily be used for relief and detail carving, as well as whacking out bowls.

I don't recall Paul charging quite that much for one of these at Klingspor in Raleigh, and in any event Klingspor's regularly has 15-20% off sales, so you might be able to pick one up for a bit less than traditional tools sells for.

WoodJoy tools is, by the way, a valid company name. They make spokeshaves, bowsaws, and marking and measuring tools. I have one of their small squares. While perhaps a bit pricey, it is an absolutely brilliant idea - incorporating most common fractional woodworking measurements into the tool, so no measuring:

http://www.woodjoytools.com/page9/page9.html

 

[CarvedTones]

A followup on the Caribou hook knives. I emailed for a quote on blades only and I asked if I really needed the large blades or if the medium blades would work for me, possibly using a large handle for two handed work.

Hi Andy.
Thank you for your inquiry.
The medium sized #6 and #2 shapes are hand forged from L6 steel, double bevelled, differentially tempered, have 3 1/4" long blades and 3 1/2" long, 5/16" thick tangs. The handles we put them on are 8 - 9" . They would perform well with 14 - 16" handles but we would want to extend the tang to 4 1/2" - 5". Of course we can make anything you need as well.
The #6 and #2 blades only would be $90 each. If you want us to extend the tangs to 5" we'd add $15 each.
We can make very strong handles from applewood if you would want us to make a custom handle for you. Please tell us the length of handle.
The cost of the knives with 9" apple or cherrywood handles is $185 each.
Everything we make is guaranteed.
Have a good day.
Regards,
Aki and Scott.
http://www.caribooblades.com/hookknives.html

So for about $105 I could get the blade. Still a little pricey for a single blade but starting to fall down into the right range where I might be able to splurge...

 

[CohibaCris]

Hi Drew - the most valuable comment I can provide aside the rest is that carving, at least these days, is absolutely locked tight to the 'master' carvers in the area. It's likely there's one or two teachers still providing knowledge of the art/craft of carving - I'll try to explain.
In Raleigh - there are two or three places to buy carving woods and tools, but only one was I able to find someone who was a seriously experienced carver to give me advice that wasn't necessarily what I wanted to hear. I'm pretty sure that the same situation exists in Charlotte. This is of course after you have made the decision that carving is something you'd like to dive deeper in. Spend a little time (when you're ready) and seek out the folks who can offer guidance related to wood, tools and techniques.

I started carving with a utility knife and Stanley chisels - as I got frustrated I acquired tools to 'solve' situational problems. This wasn't a bad way to go IMO - kept the freaking out about money to a marginally small level ;-)

Guarantee that we can locate the main peeps with our network here (in Charlotte) that could help; ask if that's a desire.
Cheers - keep the band-aids handy (I cut myself last night quite well - been carving 4 yrs (heheh))
Cris

 

[CarvedTones]

Another follow up to add a couple of things that came of this discussion. I didn't get the urethane mallet yet, but I did try a dead blow hammer with my full size Pfiel 3/30 and found this is a great way to remove lots of qood quickly and relatively quietly.

On the bent/hook knife front, I found that a lot of carvers swear by hoof knives from tack suppliers. Substantially less expensive but often a lower quality of steel. I also found that the preference seems to be to have a pair - left and right handed - as they tend to have a thick back edge. Ever the contrarian, I am trying a double edge. It did seem to be a preference, not an absolute; I found examples of both that people were happy with.

I also found an alternative to Cariboo:
http://www.preferrededge.ca/
His largest listed blade is smaller, but I emailed him and adding a couple of inches to the tang of his blades is just a little more than listed prices.

 

[CarvedTones]

My running monologue continues, but I wanted to post a follow up since I mentioned ordering a double edge hoof knife. I am shocked at price/performance. It cost me about $5 delivered, and this was "only" a good deal, not a great one. OTC in a tack store it should still be under $10. The double edged ones are lighter than the single edged and sell for less. It is not the best carving tool I own by any stretch, but it is decent steel and before I even honed it I was able to carve with it. I did discover two reasons to prefer a single edge knife sometimes - thumb push cuts are impossible (or really unwise/inconvenient) and the thinner blade of the double edge is a little springy. I am not disappointed in it, but I would not want someone to read this, get one and then be upset if either is very important. Anyway, it is a pretty decent bowl/spoon knife, especially given the price.