Throwing out an option

[bowman]

There are a few threads active now discussing various workshops, and gauging interest levels. One recurring theme I am seeing is the distance involved for many members. We use the Zoom Video Conferencing for the monthly New member chats. How difficult, and expensive, would it be to purchase some cameras and microphones to broadcast and record these workshops for members who are unable to attend due to distance, or other commitments that would prevent 4-8 hours of driving for a workshop that runs for 4-6 hours? The equipment could be shipped from presenter to the next presenter in line ahead of time? This could bring a wider audience to the workshops, and possibly encourage them to attend in person for a future workshop.

Thoughts?

 

[Bear Republic]

I second the idea, there are many tools out there for this, from the big boys, Skype, WebEx, GoToMeeting. I think finding that would be fairly easy. The camera and mics are the real issue those can be tricky depending on the environment but i think solvable. We could set up a training setup like we do the outreach trailer, except smaller and cheaply shippable. I'd be happy help out, I didnt stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night but I did play an AV geek for work recently.

 

[SubGuy]

This is worth exploring. I think it would have to be recorded to be available for members who can't make it one to watch. It would end up being a good library though. It would be something we would need to protect for members only IMHO.

 

[cyclopentadiene]

I belong to the Piedmont Triad Woodturners Association and as a group, we invested in video equipment and video booms to he the cameras. Each month, the demonstration is recorded and the videos are rented to members from the library. The club does not get wealthy from rentals at $1 per month but it has more than paid for the video equipment. This does take volunteers to edit and make copies of the videos. A similar approach could possibly be used here but if the software supports it, it could be like the raffle, PayPal could be used to "rent" the video or download a copy if you want to own it.

 

[ehpoole]

To the best of my knowledge, the organization does have basic AV gear -- the challenge has always been getting it to someone with the videography skills to make good footage and then edit the captured footage into something that can be uploaded to the web. As the workshops tend to be fairly scattered it can be a good road trip to get all the required gear in the hands of an appropriate workshop guest -- and ideally it is a guest that was not planning to participate in the workshop activity as it is very distracting to both capture footage and be the subject of that same footage (it can be like trying to answer emails while simultaneously attempting to pick up a new woodworking skill at the same time, which discourages many from trying since they wish to participate).

But by all means present your idea to the Board as I would very much love to see us create and upload more woodworking videos, its just the logistics that can be challenging to line up as needed. The software can be more challenging to ship if it is a commercial package due to licensing issues and one wants to have a reasonably robust PC with plenty of RAM to edit and render footage as the raw footage is measured in gigabytes per hour (particularly at higher capture quality). Though I would imagine that shipping video cameras, tripods, and microphones can get expensive after awhile -- one would want a reliable wireless mic for the presenter so that they are not tangled up in cords while moving about plus a second camera mounted mic to record to the opposite channel so that you can capture ambient conversations as well (you give up stereo that way, but it avoids the need for an additional audio recorder and syncing issues and good audio is much more important than stereo if people are to enjoy the video).

From a practical perspective, I suspect that what would really be required is for a small group of one, or more, individual(s) with the necessary skills (and/or hardware) and whom are willing to travel to such events for the express purpose of recording such videos and whom are not planning to actually participate in the workshop themselves. Essentially a dedicated videography team ready to travel.

 

[ehpoole]

This is worth exploring. I think it would have to be recorded to be available for members who can't make it one to watch. It would end up being a good library though. It would be something we would need to protect for members only IMHO.

It is generally not really practical to try and restrict such content as the hosting costs are considerable if trying to host such videos oneself due the the enormous bandwidth required for HD video -- your most economical option is simply uploading to services like YouTube where the hosting is otherwise free. Unless of course one wishes to get into the Blu-Ray/DVD shipping business, but the costs of creating and shipping Blu-Ray and DVD discs is pretty significant and there is a tendency for many to never find their way back home (which means burning yet more copies).

Traditional library services are much easier for organizations whose members meet at a fixed location on a regular basis to implement. It can be rather difficult to implement, especially inexpensively, for more amorphous organizations like NCWW where members are scattered across the entire Southeast (and then some) and where we have no common meeting hub where everyone gets together regularly.

We would also releases from the workshop host in order to share our video (which may not be practical for those who charge a workshop fee). Also, the idea of "premium content" it has never really been consistent with our founding principles which is why we pretty much give all our content away freely since we are, by law, a 501(c)3 non-profit entity with an educational mission.

But these are just some of my initial thoughts on the issue as a whole. Nothing is insurmountable, but it would require a firm commitment from a small but passionate subset of our membership if anything is to happen. I've learned in my time that it is very easy for many to magically volunteer unknown others to do something they wish to see done, but often something else entirely to actually find those who are willing to truly volunteer and dedicate themselves to a given project -- that is why I am so proud of those who step up to volunteer on the staff or Board because we are an exclusively volunteer based organization.

But with that out of the way, I would love to actually see such happen.

 

[sawman101]

​Add me to the list of those in favor of video taping and/or broadcasting the various workshops.

 

[bowman]

Ethan,
Thanks for the additional insights. This is the type of discussions I was looking for.

My initial thoughts were to simply live stream from the workshop, and let the hosting services (Zoom, WebEx, Skype, etc.) store the raw footage, warts and all. If we (NCWW) then wanted to edit and submit to our YouTube channel, that would be the extra work you described, by someone with the equipment and skills. I don't know all the logistics nor any extra equipment that would need to be purchased. That would obviously be a board decision to approve any purchases, or if there are funds available since this would be a new venture.

 

[KenOfCary]

We already have a Youtube Channel (NCWW) and have posted one of Charlie's workshops on segmented turning there. We should probably do this more often. The challenge of course is finding someone with the equipment and skills to do the recording and then the editing required. GoPro and its competitors are getting more available all the time.

 

[Mike Davis]

I have been offered money to film demonstrations and techniques and I won't do it.
I don't like the way I look on tape, I don't like it and I won't do it.

If offering work shops depends on being taped I'm done.

 

[bowman]

Thanks Mike. Videos would be at the acceptance of the instructor. As I indicated, I was soliciting feedback on the idea.

 

[tri4sale]

We already have a Youtube Channel (NCWW) and have posted one of Charlie's workshops on segmented turning there. We should probably do this more often. The challenge of course is finding someone with the equipment and skills to do the recording and then the editing required. GoPro and its competitors are getting more available all the time.

After watching (or maybe I should say wasting) time watching videos on YouTube, many of the woodworking videos are shot on nothing more than an Ipad and tripod.

The trickier part really is being organized and setup in a way that is conductive to recording. I project that requires lots of different tools and moving around a shop is not as conductive to recording as a project that is done on one tool, where you can setup a video recording of the space without needing to move around. With a multi-station project, it would require pausing between stations to move equipment around.

As for hosting, post them on the YouTube channel (and maybe a prominent link on top of page reminding all of us of the link) and use the YouTube advertising as a source of income (which with a large enough following can produce significant income). A friend of mine a few years ago was bringing in a few thousand dollars a year with videos about old time candy.

And be prepared to have a thick skin if you post to YouTube, lots a ########s out there who get their kicks just being jerks in the comments section.

 

[Berta]

I would also mention that the requested donation to participate helps to finance the site and all it has to offer. I, for one am willing to travel to present workshops. We need other areas to host the workshops. We will find an instructor.

 

[ehpoole]

As for hosting, post them on the YouTube channel (and maybe a prominent link on top of page reminding all of us of the link) and use the YouTube advertising as a source of income (which with a large enough following can produce significant income). A friend of mine a few years ago was bringing in a few thousand dollars a year with videos about old time candy.

And be prepared to have a thick skin if you post to YouTube, lots a ########s out there who get their kicks just being jerks in the comments section.

I would be very surprised if we ever made any meaningful money off advertising on YouTube, provided we even grew to a size that permitted monetization (1000 subscribers and 4000 viewing hours per year, at a minimum, to be considered). Monetization on YouTube today is nothing like it used to be, most active content producers have become very dependent upon third-party Patreon donations these days due to all the monetization/demonetization and advertising issues that have been going on with YouTube of late, not to mention random demonetization that frequently strips otherwise qualified and monetized videos of their monetization during the very window where most of the views, and thus most of the would be income, occur in that precious window of the first few days to a week. It's become an absolute mess with YouTube going to great lengths to repeatedly shoot themselves, and their content producers, in the foot over and over again. So any dreams of an added revenue stream should be viewed as one of those things where it is wonderful if such should happen, but don't proceed on the assumption that such will ever amount to much, if anything, unless we build a major channel with almost daily videos and millions of subscribers (at which point decent money can still be made, but it takes lots of work to maintain).

However, the cesspool that is YouTube's comments area is very easily dealt with if you do not mind disabling comments on a video altogether because you do have the option of just outright disabling comments on a per video basis. Otherwise you can opt for moderated comments, but then you need someone to dedicate themselves to going through that moderation queue every few days to approve appropriate comments and purge the inappropriate. Personally, I will never understand the need by some to post such ugly comments, I'm always left scratching my head wondering "why, if you hated the video so much, did you take the time to watch it through to the end and then invest even more time to type out a hateful response?!". Needless to say, there are aspects of humanity that I'm afraid I will never understand!

 

[Phil S]

May I offer one insight. Having been the instructor at 12 workshops and hosting six others, I honestly cannot think of one that would have produced a usable video using just a camera in the corner, even with editing.

My reasoning is:
I always start with a demo of some sort and I prepare for these by setting them up at numerous workbenches and tables, typically up to four. To video that would require preset multiple cameras or a video person and a lot of editing.

I did setup a camera during one of our classes and I did not mention it to the students. It was a huge distraction, I immediately found myself taking to the camera and not the students. After traveling to my shop, the students come first- I turned it off after about 30 minutes and deleted the file

If I had to do this, I would do it without students. I would much prefer do continue to teach live.

 

[tdukes]

I think a GoPro would be the answer. I think it will upload to youtube. Having a youtube channel would be a good idea.

 

[Graywolf]

I'm afraid I'd have to side with Phil on this one, if you introduce a camera or cameras to a workshop it will take away from the experience for the participants involved a be a distraction. Now if you want to do a video workshop then you are looking at an operation of a different animal. If you look at some of the content providers on YouTube, then you will see that the better productions have several cameras and plenty of after production editing. That's a lot of time and I'm afraid the days of putting together volunteers to do that kind of work for nothing may have past.

 

[Gotcha6]

I remember purchasing a digital camcorder for NCWW some years back. Although it would be considered 'old' by today's standards it should work very well for this purpose.
The issue I would have with taping workshops is that the few I've attended tend to gravitate into an informal social event from time to time and while that is enjoyable in and of itself it doesn't translate well into a video with all the background static it generates. But if anyone is willing, we should certainly find out who is in possession of the camera (and a video projector) and make it available.

 

[SteveHall]

I agree with many of the comments here related to the logistics, atmosphere, and skills necessary to properly record, produce, and host the media of woodworking classes:

• Good video work requires at least two 1080p DSLR or dedicated video cameras. Three are better, four best.
• Full-time camera operators make sure detail is shown and distraction minimized. Static cameras don't work except for B-roll kind of footage.
• Lighting is a more challenging than it looks. High quality lighting (lumens, color, no shadows, no-flicker) is expensive and must be coordinated.
• Sound is best captured by lavalieres or operated boom mics. One is needed for each speaker. General area microphones will pick up every distracting sound of the teacher, students, tools, and incidental background noise.
• Setting up a workshop room for video recording means half the benches or work areas have to be empty (or the camera sees the backs of people). A lot of work goes in to directing the video to avoid production getting in the way (shooting other cameras, video team communication, awkwardness for the teacher and students, replacing batteries, adjusting lights and mics, etc.).
• Files are huge! 90 minutes of good 1080p DSLR video is nearly 30 GB. For four cameras, that is 120,000 MB (bytes). With a 1 Mb (bits) upload speed, that's 11 days to push up to a host. Hopefully, a final video could be compacted to 6-10 GB with decent quality.
• One popular video could generate 500 views. That's 5 TB worth of bandwidth to pay for. (Clearly, YouTube and other hosts use massive resolution and quality/compression algorithms to reduce this, but how much quality should be traded off?)
• Editing can take a while if your standards are high. Figure 8 hours of editing per hour of video.
• Better figure some minimal background music, voice over, on-screen text, if you've already gone this far.

I think what usually happens is that someone with the space, tools, video equipment, and editing skills to do a professional job (for example, Joshua Farnsworth's Wood and Shop) converts all that into a monetary stream (business) which either ends up on DVD or internet stream. The free stuff is usually done by a lone wolf in his own shop that he's set up with years of trial and error, and has the correspondingly personal idiosyncrasies that make us all watch YouTube videos with our fingers on the comma and left arrow keys. (The YouTube shortcut keys to speed playback and jump ahead 5 seconds.)

That said, I have a DSLR, tripod, and a Zoom H6 with a few mics that I'd loan for a day to the cause of a local recording session if anybody else has the time to manage all the rest. Frankly, I think it would work a lot simpler for a teacher to teach to the camera and minimize the distractions and gear required (a la Paul Sellers). This can be done with just a DSLR and smartphone. Simplicity (and expertise) is why Roy Underhill and Norm Abram's shows work so well and lasted through many seasons. Any good looking, well spoken, skilled woodworkers out here looking to start a career on the big screen?

 

[Phil S]

Any good looking, well spoken, skilled woodworkers out here looking to start a career on the big screen?

I guess I am out on all counts