Thien Baffle notes

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Joe Scharle

New User
Joe
If you're still filling up your vac or dust collector; consider this:

The bag in my vac has not been changed for 3-4 years. Here's a pic of the bag right after I lifted the motor head. It's puffed out from vacuum, not dust. Next pic is after I have pushed the air out. It has no dust in it that I can feel.

DC_Drum_2_.JPG

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DC_Drum_3_.JPG

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This is about 6 months of collected dust in a 40 gal fiber drum. It's a little over half full, but I think I lose suction when it starts getting near the top. Could just be me, or I might be lying..


DC_Drum_1_.JPG

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CDPeters

Master of None
Chris
Joe -

Could I twist your arm into posting some pictures of the construction of your Thien baffle? You obviously did it absolutely right!

Thanks!
C.
 

FredP

Fred
Corporate Member
6 months????:elvis: I get that much dust in a little over 6 minutes!:rotflm: come on Joe git buzy ol timer.....:gar-Bi
 

CDPeters

Master of None
Chris
Sure Chris. Do you have any particular view(s) in mind?

Mainly just the top and underside of the lid - how you oriented your input elbow relative to the chip slot and the side of the barrel. Interested to know if you clipped the side of the elbow to make it "hug" the side of the barrel. I assume you are using the 2 1/2" hose?

Thanks Joe!
C.
 

kooshball

David
Corporate Member
I just put a baffle into my HF DC and what a difference; full suction and a clean filter so far after 3 bag empting sessions!
 

dupont6480

New User
Tim
Joe,
Would be great to see the pics of your baffle setup. I can't afford a cyclone just yet and anything to improve my shop vac and JET 1100 DC would be great.
Thanks,
Tim
 

Joe Scharle

New User
Joe
This may be clear as mud, so don't hesitate to ask for clarification.

I've made 5 or 6 of these and to give you a comfort level, and tell you that you don't have to over think this thing, they only take about 2 hours to build.
First, make the lid from 3/4 MDF. MDF is dimensionally strong, easy to machine and flat. If you look closely under this lid, you'll see that the sealing groove has had some modification. The top of this particular drum has a flat spot and it's easier to rout out the groove than straighten the steel ring. Trash cans are usually round when new. A 2X2 piece of MDF was used for this lid, Set the lid (centered as close as your finger tip allow) draw a line around the underside. Flip the lid over; find the center of the just drawn circle. Exact is not really critical. Drill a VERTICAL hole for your circle jig's pivot. Select the appropriate sized core box router bit for your drum's/can's lip. Set the circle jig's radius to cut a groove for the lip. Rout it.
You can leave the top square or cut it round with a BS or router. If you use a router, set the top on a piece of rigid foam insulation. You should already have that anyway. I use a 1/2" straight bit for cutting pieces off. I use the angled hose connectors (around $5) and a hole saw to make the vac holes. First one uses the same starter hole as the circle jig. The second is located where the hole is about 1 inch from inside of the rim slot.


If you are using a drum, you can size the baffle from the inside edge of the lip groove. With a tapered sided you'll need to make an inside story stick. 2 small cutoffs, pointed/beveled on the ends that contact the barrel, each a little smaller than the inside diameter of the barrel but when spring clamped at 2 places will reach the opposite sides. Check at 3-4 places. I've used 1/4" hardboard for the last 4-5 baffles. Lighter weight, works fine. Cut out a circle based upon the story stick. Clamp that, centered to the lid and bore 3 holes thru both for the mounting bolts. View pic for locations.




Next you want to remove about 1 inch of the baffle edge for 270 degrees. Use a compass and mark up a hexagon. Small compass...small hexagon, and extend the lines. Leave the area between 2 of the lines uncut. Whether the uncut area touches the can side, or just comes close is not critical. Here's how to draw a hexagon.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Regular_Hexagon_Inscribed_in_a_Circle_240px.gif

Here's a pic that should show most relationships when finished.






The last PVC piece is not glued so I can change it's angle. This alignment works best on this drum, but on a trash can, I have to change it slightly.

 
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CDPeters

Master of None
Chris
Thanks Joe!:icon_thum:icon_thum:icon_thum:icon_thum - that's perfect. What size is the PVC - looks like about 2 1/2" ?

C.
 

CDPeters

Master of None
Chris
Thanks Joe!

I'm noodling ideas for a separator for my shop vac. As you all probably know, I already have a fairly substantial investment in a 5HP cyclone DC, but I want to do something about the sanding dust that cakes up my shop vac filters when using the ROS or belt sander.

I'm toying with the idea of a side entrance rectangular inlet port on the side of a 5 gallon bucket combined with the Thien baffle plate. There is alot of info on Phil's site about guys that have built can-top Thien separators with these rectangular ports and powered by the HF/Jet/Grizz single stage units. Quite intriguing.

Thanks for at the pics Joe - very helpful and I will post the results of my experiments - once I get around to actually doing something. :gar-La;

C.
 

KenOfCary

Ken
Staff member
Corporate Member
Very interesting. I think I'll have to modify my vortex drum to include the baffle. Sometimes the drum fills up fine and other times the DC seems to suck all the chips / dust into it's bag and the drum is almost empty.

I'm now just using the vortex kit from Rockler with 4" intake / outlet.

I may also try to make a smaller one for the shop-vacs.

On a side note. Where in the area do you find 1/4" hardboard? I seem to only find 1/8 or 3/16 at the local borgs.

Cheers - Ken.
 

Joe Scharle

New User
Joe
Ken, 3/16" is probably stiff enough, but you could also use 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" MDF or plywood. I've seen a pic of one on another site made from 1/4" aluminum. We used to have a lumberyard in Fuquay-Varina that stocked it all. Now it's another Ace.
 

kooshball

David
Corporate Member
I used 3/16" from the Borg in my HF DC setup and with the three points of contact I have not seen any movement due to airflow.
 

jhreed

New User
james
I plan on using pegboard with the dust inlet penetrating the pegboard and exhausting on an angle below it. The vacuum port will terminate above the pegboard. What do yall think?
James
 

Joe Scharle

New User
Joe
According to the Phil Thein theory, it won't work. His baffle works by creating a cyclone in the upper 4-6 inches of the collection vessel. Debris sucked in is forced against the vessel wall at high speed and gravity causes it to fall beneath the baffle into a relatively still low pressure area.

However, I'd be interested in your results.
 

kooshball

David
Corporate Member
According to the Phil Thein theory, it won't work. His baffle works by creating a cyclone in the upper 4-6 inches of the collection vessel. Debris sucked in is forced against the vessel wall at high speed and gravity causes it to fall beneath the baffle into a relatively still low pressure area.

However, I'd be interested in your results.

I have to agree as well. By perforating the baffle, you will likely defeat most of its benefit as the vortex (or at least some dust) will be able to rise into the filter area.

One other thing of note, when I asked about the ideal size and profile of the baffle Phil Thein did recommend that it be as thin as possible so 3/16" might be an ideal balance of thickness and rigidity.
 
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