Tell me about these woods please...

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pslamp32

New User
Peter
Can anyone help me with a few wood questions?
  1. Is Black Walnut different from regular walnut, or are they the same thing?
  2. How does Ash work as a furniture wood? (milling, pores, finishing, etc.)
  3. How does Birch work as furniture wood?
  4. Any significant differance between Red & White oak?
Thanks! Any wisdom greatly appreciated! :lol:
 

DaveO

New User
DaveO
1. Black Walnut is Walnut, they are the same thing.
2. Ash is a good furniture wood. A little bland IMO but good and study. It is a very hard wood, and very shock resistant, that is why it is used for baseball bats and tool handles. I believe it is an open pore wood, but it machines well and finishes just fine
3. Birch is a gret furniture wood, works well and can have some awesome figure. Curly Birch is beautiful.
4. The differences in Red and White Oak are color, R.Oak is redder, and W. Oak is more gray. When QS, WO shows more ray fleck that RO. RO is more porus than WO but both are open pored woods. WO is harder and more rot resistant than RO. You can blow air through a piece of RO making bubbles in a glass of water, but you can't do that with WO. WO makes great barrels, RO leaks. WO is more expensive than RO.
Dave:)
 

pslamp32

New User
Peter
2. Ash is a good furniture wood. A little bland IMO but good and study. It is a very hard wood, and very shock resistant, that is why it is used for baseball bats and tool handles. I believe it is an open pore wood, but it machines well and finishes just fine
3. Birch is a gret furniture wood, works well and can have some awesome figure. Curly Birch is beautiful.
Dave:)

Thanks Dave! Was thinking about pickin' some of these up because they were so cheap. wasn't sure if it was because it is pure crap or not. I did a project a while back with W. Oak and was decidedly not a fan. Looked way too 'rustic ' for my taste. I'm sure that's borderline blasphemy round these parts! :rolf:
 

DaveO

New User
DaveO
Dave,

I always heard that white oak is closed cell rather than open cell as red oak. That is why white oak is so slow to dry, resists rot, holds water when used in a barrel, bends more before breaking, is more crush resistant, harder to finish and glue than red oak.


Mike, I believe that you are very correct with that statement. That is why you can't make bubbles with WO :crybaby2:
But I think that cell structure is different than surface pores (open vs. closed grain) that would require filling to get the ultra high gloss finish and smoothness. But could be wrong, it happened once before, but then I realized that I was mistaken... :-D :lol: :lol:
 

DavidF

New User
David
Mike, I believe that you are very correct with that statement. That is why you can't make bubbles with WO :crybaby2:
But I think that cell structure is different than surface pores (open vs. closed grain) that would require filling to get the ultra high gloss finish and smoothness. But could be wrong, it happened once before, but then I realized that I was mistaken... :-D :lol: :lol:

A good reference book for these things is Bruce Hoadly's "what would is that" and "understanding wood" I have both if anybody wants to borrow them at anytime.
 

Kyle

New User
Kyle Edwards
white oak is a much harder wood than red oak.

ash actually has pretty nice figure and is typically sold as "honey oak" when made into flooring.

Black walnut is regular walnut as long as the species talked about is Juglans nigra

Birch is very good wood.
 

pslamp32

New User
Peter
white oak is a much harder wood than red oak.

ash actually has pretty nice figure and is typically sold as "honey oak" when made into flooring.

Black walnut is regular walnut as long as the species talked about is Juglans nigra

Birch is very good wood.

Thanks Kyle. Looks like I'll be picking up some Birch since it is such good wood and CHEAP!!
 

DaveO

New User
DaveO
Todd, there are so many different species of Oak grouped into two main catagories White and Red. It's really hard to give them a overall hardness classification. For example in the Red Oak group you have Southern Red Quercus falcata with a Janka hardness of 1060, N. Red Q. rubra at 1290 and Scarlet Oak Q. coccinea at 1400. While in the White Oak group you have White Oak Q. alba at 1360 and Swamp Oak Q. bicolor at 1620. So there is a significant difference between the hardnesses of the Oaks, depending on which one you're talking about.
Dave:)
 
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Toddler

New User
Todd
Todd, there are so many different species of Oak grouped into two main catagories White and Red. It's really hard to give them a overall hardness classification. For example in the Red Oak group you have Southern Red Quercus flacata with a Janka hardness of 1060, N. Red Q. rubra at 1290 and Scarlet Oak Q. coccinea at 1400. While in the White Oak group you have White Oak Q. alba at 1360 and Swamp Oak Q. bicolor at 1620. So there is a significant difference between the hardnesses of the Oaks, depending on which one you're talking about.
Dave:)

Awsome Info Dave,
I guess Kyle was probably thinking southern Red since if it is local wood, it would likely be that one.
Thanks,
Todd
 

Toddler

New User
Todd
Thanks for that link.

I put the link I used at the bottom of the post. Cool thing is that site also lists expansion/contraction from g-od in R and T, shear strength, density, sg, bending strength, gluing properties, stiffness, and a host of other things.

Todd
 
M

McRabbet

Ash is probably the most underrated of the woods you mentioned, probably most for its rather lack luster grain. But it sure makes up for that characteristic with it's high strength, straight grain and very good milling properties. I used Ash in making the four sturdy table legs for my outfeed table (46" x 50" by 31" high). I cut 3" x 1/2" mortises to accept the table apron tenons (they actually meet in the bottoms of the mortises and are mitered to 45 degrees). Ash could also be used for raised panels doors and the rails and stiles. I've used Birch for RP doors, face frames and applications where some people would use Poplar, which I think is too soft. The painted built-in TV cabinet/display cabinet in my Project Gallery was made entirely of Birch and Birch plywood. And I'm currently using White Oak for a Hope Chest and for a large dining room cabinet job I've got underway. Personally, I don't care for Red Oak because of it's open grain.

And DaveO? He has never been wrong or even mistaken; he obviously had been misinformed in those rare instances.

Rob
 
J

jeff...

No surprise that Red oak is my all around favorite wood, if you ever seen and worked QS red oak you might change your mind - it's amazing all around great wood, even FS it still amazingly beautiful, the only down side to RO is it smells like puke when it's fresh sawn off the log green, but that only lasts for a few weeks. I would also agree that Ash is perhaps one of the most under rated woods out there. Black Walnut is one of my least favorite woods, birch is somewhere in the middle of it all.
 

walnutjerry

Jerry
Senior User
3. Birch is a gret furniture wood, works well and can have some awesome figure. Curly Birch is beautiful.
Dave:)

Birch is a beautiful wood, especially curly or figured birch. I question the "works well" statement, to some extent.

When I worked with the millwork company, we always had to figure about 30% more material for a trim order in birch to get the desired number of flawless pieces. (window and door casings, base board, crown mould, etc.)

The following information comes from a cabinet making and millwork book by John L Feirer copyright 1967 and 1970. It (Birch) is excellent for boring and mortising with 97% good to excellent pieces --------the nailing and screw properties are way down the line at 42% and 58% respectively, that is free from complete splits. Turning figures are pretty good at 80% rated fair to excellent pieces. As far is planing, only 63% perfect pieces. Then shaping or moulding at 57% good to excellent pieces.

I guess it depends on whose book you read or how you use Birch to determine how good it works.:lol: And I wonder what other criteria is used in determining all the data in the charts we find:eusa_thin .

Jerry
 
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