Stihl 461 chainsaw fail

[bluchz]

Stihl 461 chainsaw.
i bought a new Stihl 461 chainsaw march 29th 2013. The saw gets run 6 to 8 hours every day. The saw is now blown up, low compression won't start. The Dealer says it is from over reving, Too many RPM. The suspected cause is a dull chain that lets the saw run too fast. I think i am being taken for a ride? The saw is still under warranty and will be rebuilt, the last one that was rebuilt lasted 2 months before it blew up again, different model, different circumstances. I feel that Stihl should give me a new saw. Sometimes my way of thinking isn't always fair so i thought i wold see if anyone else would weigh in? am I out of line? the last rebuilt saw didn't last. Well any thoughts would be welcome.

 

[chris_goris]

Bluchz
What exactly do you mean by blown up? Did it seize up or burn a hole in the piston?. I was unaware you could overrev a chainsaw..... I have had a Stihl 025 (I realize nothing like yours) and It probably has 1000s of hours on it as I used to process firewood with it and it has been running flawlessly for about 15 years now. If it were me, I would demand to know exactly what went wrong and I wouldnt settle for a rebuild either. If the dealer wont budge, ask for a factory rep and have him (or her) tell you why their machine failed and why they wont stand behind it.

 

[bluchz]

The dealer showed me where the piston ring was damaged on the exhaust side. You can see the damage whith the muffler removed. The engine overheated and melted/damaged a 1/8" section of the ring and piston . Now the motor has +- 90lb of compression. We used to fun 440 Stihl saws and were getting about 6months minimum use out of thmem. Then the 441 and was regularly getting less than 6 months use so we switched to the 460, Bigger = tougher and longer lasting? The first 460 we ran we got 18months out of. Now Stihl has switched to 461 and and we are back to the 6months we got from the 440.I am very frustrated that these machines don't seem to be holding up to my expectations.

 

[chris_goris]

Again, my feeling is that Stihl needs to explain why their industrially rated saw will not hold up. What is the warranty that came with it?. Its of no consequence to you that if in fact it was caused by overrevving due to a dull chain (how dull does it have to be?, Ive tried to run dull chains, you cant do that for more than a few seconds). Are you using their lubricants?. A problem with a piston ring burning is either lubrication, materials or a cylinder/piston ring clearance problem, or possibly all 3. Have you tried Husqvarna? Do they hold up?. I fear that Stihl , just like every other high end manufacturer today is beginning to cheapen their products to squeeze out profits.

 

[Mike Davis]

Contact the Company:

Company:​

Stihl Inc.

Contact:​

Customer Service

Address:​

536 Viking Dr

City:​

Virginia Beach, VA 23452

Country:​

United States

Phone:​

(757) 486-9100

 

[charlie jones]

We sell Stihll at our stores. We don't see this kind of problem often. Most of the time it's because of improper fuel mixture. Try adding a little more oil to the mix and do not overheat the saw. I have a 066 that has been in hard use for 20 years and still has 135 lbs of compression. They can be over reved if the carb is not adjusted right.

 

[Jim Wallace]

My mechanic (I also use a Stihl saw) told me that when the saw is running out of gas it frequently runs progressively faster for a few seconds before it dies. He advised me to stop immediately when that begins to happen. He said that some people try to get the most out of that last burst to finish a cut etc., and that they can over rev the saw in the process damaging the saw.

 

[Gofor]

FIrst off, a dull chain won't let the saw run too fast if its against the wood. That is malarkey. It will run too fast if just reved in the open. (However, that can happen with a chain saw mill if you lock the throttle and don't release it at the end of the cut). A dull chain will heat up the chain and bar, possibly ruining both, but won't damage the engine.

Burnt piston/ring indicates either it was a clearance problem when assembled, too little or poor grade mix in the fuel, or its set too lean. Husqvarna had a problem with some of the saws a couple years ago when they had the factory setting on the "tamper-proof" carb adjustments set too lean in order to meet EPA requirements. May be a case of the same. If the cylinder wall is burnt, that means the temper is gone, so as a minimum, also needs a new cylinder.

One other cause is if raw air was somehow being pulled into the cylinder. When I "burned up" one of Scott Smith's saws, the mechanic found a set screw in the motor housing had vibrated out, allowing raw air to get sucked into the combustion chamber giving it too lean a mix. That was an older model saw, though, so not sure it would apply to yours.

As for rebuild or new, if its a good mech rebuilding it, I might have more confidence in him than the factory after getting a couple bum saws of the same model.

Sorry to hear this. I have had very good luck with Stihl saws, but have only run them like you do for a few weeks each year.

JMTCW

Go

PS. The saw will run cooler if you use higher octane gas. I use 91 in mine.

 

[chris_goris]

One thing to check easily is pull out the spark plug and see what color the insulator is. It should be a nice light brownish color, If its white, that indicates the saw was running too lean, black, too rich.

 

[Jeff]

Whatever the cause you deserve a new factory saw regardless of what the dealer says. Repair, rebuild, is bull.... IMO.

+1 to Mike's suggestion to get in touch with a Stihl rep and your new saw should come with a full warranty.

It sounds like an engine internal misalignment with the cylinder bore, rings, piston, and crankshaft, etc. Revving the engine up with the recommended gas/oil mix should not cause that kind of extreme wear even on aluminum.

 

[bluchz]

The results are in. My dealer is gave me a new saw! The dealer suspects that the saw was overevved and this caused the failure. I still don't agree but the result is that i am getting the "new" saw that i paid for 3 weeks ago. I am now of the feeling that Stihl can make up any excuse it wants to justify why a saw has blown up. I have heard many over the last few years, dirty air, bad /improper mixed gas, clogged air filters letting dirt by. It seems like they have never made a saw that failed. kudos to them. I might be back to buying Stihl but i am going to see how another brand works for my next saw. The local Stihl dealer came through for me but it was just too frustrating for me to not try something else.

 

[Woodman2k]

Now that you have a new saw please tell me what you are doing that relegates a top end saw to being wiped out in 6 monthes. My Husq'y is 20 years old this September and my Stihl which is 4 years old replaced a 045 that was who knows how old? They both give me no problems although the stihl just about has to be run with 91 octane. I have been heating my homes with wood both here, and in the past up, North for many years and have cut an incredible amount of hard wood. Add to that all the wood I cut for my woodturning and air filters and spark plugs are about it. Are you cutting in the water recovering timber?
Greg

 

[bluchz]

Woodman2k
My saws are used to limb hardwood. I have 2 saws in the woods topping 10 to 20 tractor trailer loads of wood a day. We run the saws hard, the guys running them do not own the saws. I think this makes a difference in the attitude with wich they are run and affects the life of the saw. I know that we are hard on saws and probably abuse them and my expectation for how long they last is months, not years. If I brought a saw home and cut firewood,cleaned around the farm, was the only operator, my expectations for the life of the saw would be different.

 

[Woodman2k]

When you said 20 loads a day AND the guys don't own there own saws that pretty much set the tone. I cannot imagine going through the life of a Stihl or Husq'y in 6 monthes. I don't envy your position.
Greg

 

[Jeff]

Husqvarna and Stihl both make excellent saws and your application is certainly a rigorous test for either one in regular, heavy use. So I got curious and found some information that may be helpful.

http://www.forestnet.com/TWissues/August08/chainsaw.pdf

There is a section on scoring on the exhaust side of the piston which you noted. There are several factors which contribute to it in addition to our E10 ethanol enhanced gasoline.

 

[bluchz]

More to the saga. "You have to laugh or you will cry your eyes out!" The question was asked what I do that i go thru so many saws? Well scroll up we run 'em hard. I got to thinking about this a little after lunch today. I may have given the impression that all these saws have failed when that is not the case. I have run over one with a pickup, the feller buncher operator ran over one with his machine, I had a former(note former) employee ruin 2 saws in one week with a skidder. Well anyway i didn't want to leave a less then honest representation about Stihl products. Well you might ask why this thought hit me after lunch today? See the following picture of the replacement saw the dealer gave me.
Note the bent handlebar, broken chain brake, and squished muffler.This happened today. The story is the saw was set down next to a large log during lunch. The log shifted and rolled over the saw. My sense of humor that has been gone for a few days has returned and i just have to laugh, maybe it's karma. The thing to remember when logging" any day that no one gets hurt is a good day" My FIL says that a lot. I just have to remember that logging is one of the most dangerous jobs out there. So we really are lucky that when a saw is smashed by a tree, skidder, buncher, or pickup that the operator wasn't. Thanks to all who chimed in on this thread all your suggestions and opinions are appreciated. Again the dealer gave me a new saw. Two days later it had about $250 damage done to it that was my ( or my crews)fault. You just have to laugh!!

 

[Berta]

My husband's advice is: buy an Oregon chain and bar, stop and sharpen when it stops throwing big shavings or is giving you a hard time, even if it is in the middle of a cut. He also replaces sprockets every few chains. He has run Stihl saws for years. His old one is about 20 yrs old.

 

[Jeff]

Good humor goes a long way towards making things tolerable and laughable for the reasons that you cited. A perfectly good, brand new saw, but stuff happens for many reasons including +/- karma.

Equipment can be replaced at will, but human damage is a different beast that's not forgiving. I'm curious if your operation is required to be under Federal/State OSHA guidelines. :dontknow:

 

[bluchz]

Good humor goes a long way towards making things tolerable and laughable for the reasons that you cited. A perfectly good, brand new saw, but stuff happens for many reasons including +/- karma.

Equipment can be replaced at will, but human damage is a different beast that's not forgiving. I'm curious if your operation is required to be under Federal/State OSHA guidelines. :dontknow:

Yes we are under OSHA guidelines and we still have accidents. We do our best, train,wear and enforce PPE but as they say "mess happens":BangHead: I try to learn and move on.

 

[scsmith42]

I've recently started mixing my fuel at a 40:1 ratio, instead of 50:1. According to my dealer, this will help to improve the longevity of the saws that are run hard - especially considering the ethanol problems.