Spraying Stain

[rcflyer23]

Is there any issue with spraying stain I'm looking at using some Cabot stain and would prefer to spray it instead of wiping it on. I can't think for any reason why it wouldn't work. My gun is able to spray latex so I wouldn't think it would be to thick or am I just missing the boat.. :banana:

 

[Joe Scharle]

I sprayed some with a rattle can recently. I like it, because I was able to reach areas that I usually smear with a rag.

 

[MikeH]

I wouldn't see why you couldn't spray it. You can spray just about everything else. Got WIP pics?

 

[rcflyer23]

I wouldn't see why you couldn't spray it. You can spray just about everything else. Got WIP pics?

Yeah I have a bunch of pics.. Just haven't posted them or put them in a album yet.. Maybe I'll do that tonight when I get home. I was trying to wait until I got about half way done and the started.. I'm trying to be done with this project before Christmas.. :wsmile:

 

[CrealBilly]

Yeah and spray a mess - they don't call it stain for nothing you know - that's exactly what it is stain. I'm going to say something I might regret. But you can actually make your own wood stain any color you like, for pennies on the dollar with mineral spirits and oil based artist colors from walmart or arts craft store. I don't stain wood so I don't use this method. But if you open a can of stain that glob of mess on the bottom of the can is oil based colors, the liquid is generally a mineral spirits mixture containing oil from the pigments and some retarder to make it dry slower (hence the name penetrating stain). If you want a quick dry stain use powdered artist colors and DNA instead. But again I don't stain wood so experiment yourself.

To tone wood you can also take the same oil based artist colors and mix in with your finishing or sealing medium instead of mineral spirits and change the tone of your finish, thereby chaning the color of what the wood looks like underneath the finish. When you do this go easy on the mixing you want the wood to show through, so very little tone mixture is needed, to much and the finish could get a muddy look just like wood that has been stained looks, but maybe that's what your after? However, with just a little color change in the finish you get a uniform color and don't have to worry about staining the wood and all the problems associated with wood stain.

A set of 6 earth tone artist colors (YELLOW OCHRE, VAN DYKE BROWN, BURNT SIENNA, RAW SIENNA, BURNT UMBER and RAW UMBER) plus BLACK and WHITE you can mix up any color on earth. If you want to go man made colors then add in BLUE, GREEN and RED to your mix. If you can find the pigmented dry powders instead of the oils they mix a lot easier in a finishing medium. A artist color wheel can help guide you in mixing, but soon you won't need the wheel as you'll learn what colors you like.

If you ever want to change the color - It's much easier to remove toner than it is to remove stain out of wood.

Thanks

 

[FredP]

stain can be sprayed. you set the gun for a mist coat [very fine spray] and do it in stages until you get the shade you want. it tends to hide the wood grain a bit more than wiping. I don't care much for stain and only use it when the customer insists. my latest project was done this way and it turned out ok [if you like stained sepele. I will try to find the pics and get em up tonight.

 

[rcflyer23]

Yeah and spray a mess - they don't call it stain for nothing you know - that's exactly what it is stain. I'm going to say something I might regret. But you can actually make your own wood stain any color you like, for pennies on the dollar with mineral spirits and oil based artist colors from walmart or arts craft store. I don't stain wood so I don't use this method. But if you open a can of stain that glob of mess on the bottom of the can is oil based colors, the liquid is generally a mineral spirits mixture containing oil from the pigments and some retarder to make it dry slower (hence the name penetrating stain). If you want a quick dry stain use powdered artist colors and DNA instead. But again I don't stain wood so experiment yourself.

To tone wood you can also take the same oil based artist colors and mix in with your finishing or sealing medium instead of mineral spirits and change the tone of your finish, thereby chaning the color of what the wood looks like underneath the finish. When you do this go easy on the mixing you want the wood to show through, so very little tone mixture is needed, to much and the finish could get a muddy look just like wood that has been stained looks, but maybe that's what your after? However, with just a little color change in the finish you get a uniform color and don't have to worry about staining the wood and all the problems associated with wood stain.

A set of 6 earth tone artist colors (YELLOW OCHRE, VAN DYKE BROWN, BURNT SIENNA, RAW SIENNA, BURNT UMBER and RAW UMBER) plus BLACK and WHITE you can mix up any color on earth. If you want to go man made colors then add in BLUE, GREEN and RED to your mix. If you can find the pigmented dry powders instead of the oils they mix a lot easier in a finishing medium. A artist color wheel can help guide you in mixing, but soon you won't need the wheel as you'll learn what colors you like.

If you ever want to change the color - It's much easier to remove toner than it is to remove stain out of wood.

Thanks

Jeff you brought up some great ideas.. I might have to give some of this a try. I'm not a proponent of stain myself, I'm using red oak and it ranges from really pink to almost brown and I want to get a consistent color across the whole piece and wanted to have it be uniform. I'm wondering if I should use your toner idea on some scrap and see what the wife thinks. If it was all a uniform color I would just clear the thing and be done with it.

stain can be sprayed. you set the gun for a mist coat [very fine spray] and do it in stages until you get the shade you want. it tends to hide the wood grain a bit more than wiping. I don't care much for stain and only use it when the customer insists. my latest project was done this way and it turned out ok [if you like stained sepele. I will try to find the pics and get em up tonight.

Fred I would not like stained sepele, unless it was on a guitar and then maybe depending on how nice it looked...

I may have to take a look at the whole piece, I was going to stain parts of it before assembly to make life easier as I am also using Spalted Maple for some of the panels and the top and I will not be staining that. That will just get a clear coat once it's sanded.

 

[Bill Clemmons]

To tone wood you can also take the same oil based artist colors and mix in with your finishing or sealing medium instead of mineral spirits and change the tone of your finish, thereby chaning the color of what the wood looks like underneath the finish. When you do this go easy on the mixing you want the wood to show through, so very little tone mixture is needed, to much and the finish could get a muddy look just like wood that has been stained looks, but maybe that's what your after? However, with just a little color change in the finish you get a uniform color and don't have to worry about staining the wood and all the problems associated with wood stain.

If you ever want to change the color - It's much easier to remove toner than it is to remove stain out of wood.

Thanks

Jeff makes an excellent point regarding toner. Think of it as a very thin coat of paint. You're laying down a film over the wood, not into the wood. W/ each successive layer, you obscure the wood a little more. I experimented w/ adding a stain to lacquer and spraying it on. The color was exactly what the recipient of the piece wanted, but the grain didn't show through as much as I normally like.

Have you considered a dye, either water or alcohol based? It will color the wood without hiding the grain. For the RO you're using, it might be a good way to give it a consistent color. Then you can apply a clear top coat to the entire piece.

Bill

 

[rcflyer23]

Jeff makes an excellent point regarding toner. Think of it as a very thin coat of paint. You're laying down a film over the wood, not into the wood. W/ each successive layer, you obscure the wood a little more. I experimented w/ adding a stain to lacquer and spraying it on. The color was exactly what the recipient of the piece wanted, but the grain didn't show through as much as I normally like.

Have you considered a dye, either water or alcohol based? It will color the wood without hiding the grain. For the RO you're using, it might be a good way to give it a consistent color. Then you can apply a clear top coat to the entire piece.

Bill

I was wondering about that last night using dye instead of stain. I really don't want to lose the grain in the piece. I have some transtint but I only have black and blue and I'm not doing that to the oak.. I'll have to see about getting to WC and looking at the dyes there.

 

[Jeff]

Toning with a Trans Tint dye sounds interesting and may give you more consistent color. True, dyes don't obscure the grain like stains do.

http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/TransTint.htm

The viscosity in water, alcohol, shellac (a 1 lb. cut), and lacquer thinner is real low so a 1.4-1.5mm tip is recommended whereas a latex paint tip is about 2-2.5mm to compensate for the much higher viscosity.

A cut open refrigerator or freezer box makes a convenient backdrop as a spray booth. You can experiment on that surface also to set up the spray volume (very, very light) and pattern for your sprayer at the appropriate distance (12-18"). My hard learned experience: don't overdo it; multiple light coats is the way to go and practice on scrap first! :BangHead:

 

[rcflyer23]

I'm going down to WC today to look at what they have. I'm going to probably try it as a dye/stain instead of a toner right now since I'm not real sure how I'm going to finish it. Lacquer or shellac, poly who knows. I'll probably use DNA for the medium although you can use water with it. I like it in DNA so it flashes off faster.. I'm going to rig up a spray booth in the garage with some plastic drop clothes.

Toning with a Trans Tint dye sounds interesting and may give you more consistent color. True, dyes don't obscure the grain like stains do.

http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/TransTint.htm

The viscosity in water, alcohol, shellac (a 1 lb. cut), and lacquer thinner is real low so a 1.4-1.5mm tip is recommended whereas a latex paint tip is about 2-2.5mm to compensate for the much higher viscosity.

A cut open refrigerator or freezer box makes a convenient backdrop as a spray booth. You can experiment on that surface also to set up the spray volume (very, very light) and pattern for your sprayer at the appropriate distance (12-18"). My hard learned experience: don't overdo it; multiple light coats is the way to go and practice on scrap first! :BangHead:

 

[rcflyer23]

To tone wood you can also take the same oil based artist colors and mix in with your finishing or sealing medium instead of mineral spirits and change the tone of your finish, thereby chaning the color of what the wood looks like underneath the finish. When you do this go easy on the mixing you want the wood to show through, so very little tone mixture is needed, to much and the finish could get a muddy look just like wood that has been stained looks, but maybe that's what your after? However, with just a little color change in the finish you get a uniform color and don't have to worry about staining the wood and all the problems associated with wood stain.

Jeff,

On the Toner finishing process. I'm going to have to probably go this route. Using the same dying process on each of the two colors of the wood I get two totally different colors. :BangHead:

So can I tone the sanding sealer or would I be better off using the sealer then toning the laquer? If I use the sanding sealer I usually sand it flat when doing guitars and other stuff would I do the same here and then just spray the clear on that or do I spray a light coat and then clear the whole thing?


Thanks....

 

[CrealBilly]

Jeff,

On the Toner finishing process. I'm going to have to probably go this route. Using the same dying process on each of the two colors of the wood I get two totally different colors. :BangHead:

So can I tone the sanding sealer or would I be better off using the sealer then toning the laquer? If I use the sanding sealer I usually sand it flat when doing guitars and other stuff would I do the same here and then just spray the clear on that or do I spray a light coat and then clear the whole thing?


Thanks....

It's best to have the toner coat(s) sit in between your sealer and clear coats.

 

[rcflyer23]

It's best to have the toner coat(s) sit in between your sealer and clear coats.

Okay so put a sealer coat down sand it flat then do I shoot another coat of sanding sealer with the dye in it or do a clear lacquer with toner in it then a clear on top of that.

I let the two pieces dry and they are a little closer in color that I originally thought they were going to be. I'm also going to get some red tint and mix up a different batch to see if I can get the wood to dye close enough as well and also try the toned sealer. Basically going to try it all until we get the results we are looking for. I do totally see what you were talking about with the stain filling/killing the grain in the wood. It looks SO much better with the transtint on than the similarly colored stain. I don't think I will ever use stain again. Thankfully I don't own a lot of it. I'll be looking into the powdered tints as well. I'm going to try and have all of them on hand over time.

 

[CrealBilly]

Okay so put a sealer coat down sand it flat then do I shoot another coat of sanding sealer with the dye in it or do a clear lacquer with toner in it then a clear on top of that.

I let the two pieces dry and they are a little closer in color that I originally thought they were going to be. I'm also going to get some red tint and mix up a different batch to see if I can get the wood to dye close enough as well and also try the toned sealer. Basically going to try it all until we get the results we are looking for. I do totally see what you were talking about with the stain filling/killing the grain in the wood. It looks SO much better with the transtint on than the similarly colored stain. I don't think I will ever use stain again. Thankfully I don't own a lot of it. I'll be looking into the powdered tints as well. I'm going to try and have all of them on hand over time.

Toner mixed in the lacquer for the tone coat(s) will work good, then clean out your gun real well and go with clear coats of lacquer over top the tone coat(s). Get a couple of clear coats down before to start sanding your top coats you don't want to sand through your tone coat(s).

 

[rcflyer23]

Jeff thanks for the input. I'm going to get some scraps of the two shades of the wood and see what I can come up with. I have the sanding sealer already and will pick up some lacquer this week. I'll shoot a few coats of sealer and get it all level and ready for the toner coats. Thanks for the insight hopefully this will keep me from having to go buy some more transtint for the time being.

 

[JWBWW]

Usually best to spray dye to achieve complete uniformity of color and then use toners in finish coats of lacquer (my preference is a can between finish coats of clear) to even out variations. Spraying pigment stain is usually a mess and always a waste of material that ends up being wiped off if it isn't already on the floor. Smaller tip as has been suggested and best advice I ever got (from Mohawk's tech guys) was to find the color you want through lots of test pieces. Once happy with the color, dilute your mix to 50%... I like even 33% or even 25% with complex pieces. The logic is simple... you can sneak up on the color you have in your samples without creating disaster on the first pass or two. Your technique is to have the dye just "kiss the surface" and not wet it. Grab scraps of old plywood and take some time to adjust your gun. When it's right you'll immediately understand the Mohawk rep's notion of "kissing" the surface. Beware of how fast flash-off is...

Biggest adjustment I had to spraying NGR/alcohol-based dyes is that they flash off so quickly that they trick us into thinking they need us to deliver another hit. Restraint is called for here. Remember what it looked like when "wet." When the lacquer (or other sealer and topcoat) hits these pieces the color comes back strong and if you're not prepared a "natural cherry" looks an awful lot like that thick dark syrup that looks more like frozen burgundy.

I love to use toners and add dyes and NGRs to my lacquer frequently. But they always add a layer and push the wood's glory farther down in my applications. I much prefer to use them to fix distracting elements of the wood; best example is cherry sapwood that is now so acceptable on one face in graded lumber.

 

[rcflyer23]

Thanks John, I'll keep that in consideration as well. I've actually almost got the colors between the two different shades of wood to match my concern is what you said about the top coat, I need to throw some clear on the two pieces to see what happens. I'm sure I'll get it, I'm going to take my time since this is for the wife and make sure it is perfect.

 

[CrealBilly]

How goes it? I'm kind of excited another WW'er has been converted off the [strike]stain[/strike] (bad 5 letter word) habit. John gave you some solid advise, you can't go wrong with Mohawk products. Please share your experiences, for others to read about.

 

[rcflyer23]

How goes it? I'm kind of excited another WW'er has been converted off the [strike]stain[/strike] (bad 5 letter word) habit. John gave you some solid advise, you can't go wrong with Mohawk products. Please share your experiences, for others to read about.

Jeff it's going pretty well. I'm definitely a convert to dye's. I'll be getting some additional colors over time. I'm also going to experiment some with Rit Dye. I actually bought some of their scarlett color last night and use it in my mixture to match the other color wood. I've about got the mixture perfect.

Here is a picture of the wood using the exact same mixture on the two colors of oak. You can see how it reacted differently between the two colors.

View image in gallery​

The smaller swatch is much more brown. We are gong for the bottom color and I never really realized how bad the Stain killed the grain in the wood. I had stained a piece with a different color and it looks like crap comparatively.


I'm going to get 4 or 5 colors of the RIT dye and play around with it. It's cheap enough to play with.