So What are the things that require some form of intervention

[SteveColes]

There are, in my opinion, 2 areas that we have to watch. The first is anything that will change or has the potential to change to:

a welcome, relaxed atmosphere where people can feel comfortable posting questions and suggestions without fear of abuse from other members like you might see in some "other" forums out there. :wink: There are no attitude problems or harsh comments or micturating contests that I have noticed.

The second is difficult for me to explain. The issue that was raised when we talked about what was offensive to or might make our current or future women members feel uncomfortable, is just a part of a bigger issue. We, I, don't want make any of our members feel "uncomfortable", becuase of their race, religion, ethinicity, sex or sexual preference.

Why, for me, because I feel it is the "right" thing to do. But, if that isn't sufficiant then I'll raise a "practical" point. People who feel uncomfortable in a group tend to react in one of three ways.
1. Don't contribute much if at all.
2. Withdraw completely.
3. Get hostile.
I can't think of any reason that we would want any of those things to happen.

I wonder how Philip Fuentes felt when he read cad's posts about "migrant" workers or even worse, his "apology" And even Helmswatch post.

 

[cskipper]

It's a difficult topic. I agree that folks shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable. But what makes one person uncomfortable never even crosses the other's radar. I felt that helmswatch probably reacted to cad's post, but in chatting with him later I'm not even sure he saw it. He said that both he and his wife love this site. Also that she'd be the first to fuss at illegal aliens.... He then posted something which kind of appalled us - but it didn't his wife, at whom the comments were focused. They kid each other that way. But since the post made the rest of us cringe should it have been pulled? As you pointed out, how did that one make Philip feel?

A big part of me says yes - let's pm the person and just mention the acid test of "would I want my child to read this". Unfortunately, some folks would want them to read it. What then? But if we can catch folks when it starts maybe we can keep it out.

On the other hand, overuse of big brother will cause the same behaviors you mentioned. I'm a lot of help, huh?

 

[DaveO]

Steve, what is the best course of action when someone discovers a posting that might be objectionable? For example, when I read Helmswatch's post about his wife and INS, I thought it was funny, but I also thought that others might not. I was unsure if I was over-reacting in the light of other situations. So I moved it to moderation to see what others thought before sending a PM to him. Is that a good system or should I have just sent a PM to him and let the post stay where it was. In my mind, if it had the potential to be offensive then the post should be removed so it is seen by the least number of members, then with time to analyse the wording and the context, an proper PM can be drafted to the poster, explaining why the post was pulled. Or it can be put back into circulation if deemed to not have crossed the threshold, probably without the OP knowing that it had been pulled for moderation.

Dave

 

[McRabbet]

Steve, what is the best course of action when someone discovers a posting that might be objectionable?

In my mind, if it had the potential to be offensive then the post should be removed so it is seen by the least number of members...

Dave

Dave/Steve and others -- I removed a post by wsd1089 more than a week ago because it was so offensive to me that I didn't want to move it to moderation for fear that Cathy would see it! I won't repeat it here because she would see it now, but I did discuss it with Chris and also with DL, Monty and IIRC, DaveO. Fortunately, I caught it within five minutes of his post and few were on the site when it happened, so it was probably not seen by many others -- I PM'd him immediately and he seemed to understand my action. It was just a very crude post and, right or wrong, I deleted it.

Rob

PS - I still have the PM's I exchanged if you want to see them.

 

[cskipper]

thanks.

 

[SteveColes]

Steve, what is the best course of action when someone discovers a posting that might be objectionable? For example, when I read Helmswatch's post about his wife and INS, I thought it was funny, but I also thought that others might not. I was unsure if I was over-reacting in the light of other situations. So I moved it to moderation to see what others thought before sending a PM to him. Is that a good system or should I have just sent a PM to him and let the post stay where it was. In my mind, if it had the potential to be offensive then the post should be removed so it is seen by the least number of members, then with time to analyse the wording and the context, an proper PM can be drafted to the poster, explaining why the post was pulled. Or it can be put back into circulation if deemed to not have crossed the threshold, probably without the OP knowing that it had been pulled for moderation.

Dave:smile:

I wish I had THE CORRECT answer here, but I don't. The way I want it to work is not supported by the software. I am looking to see if I can change that.

I think that with the limitations of the software, I think what you did was the right thing. The only thing that I would have done differently is that Helmswatch's post had stayed invisible.

 

[SteveColes]

It's a difficult topic. I agree that folks shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable. But what makes one person uncomfortable never even crosses the other's radar. I felt that helmswatch probably reacted to cad's post, but in chatting with him later I'm not even sure he saw it. He said that both he and his wife love this site. Also that she'd be the first to fuss at illegal aliens.... He then posted something which kind of appalled us - but it didn't his wife, at whom the comments were focused. They kid each other that way. But since the post made the rest of us cringe should it have been pulled? As you pointed out, how did that one make Philip feel?

Yes it should have been pulled.

A big part of me says yes - let's pm the person and just mention the acid test of "would I want my child to read this". Unfortunately, some folks would want them to read it. What then? But if we can catch folks when it starts maybe we can keep it out.

I agree that isn't the acid test, especialy in the cases of subtle bigotry and intolerance.

On the other hand, overuse of big brother will cause the same behaviors you mentioned. I'm a lot of help, huh?

Yes you are

 

[DaveO]

If the post is outright wrong, like in the case of what McRabett mentioned then there is no question. It is when is isn't so cut and dry in your mind as in the case of Helmswatch, that I am not sure the best course of action. Now I realize that I should have stuck with my gut instinct with HW's post. But at the time it was kinda a grey area in my head and the discussions on it were inconclusive.
Dave

 

[D L Ames]

It's a difficult topic. I agree that folks shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable. But what makes one person uncomfortable never even crosses the other's radar.

I think it is obvious that my radar is not nearly as sensitive as others. Some of these post didn't even raise a concern for me but after reading this thread I see where everyone is coming from.

Why, for me, because I feel it is the "right" thing to do. But, if that isn't sufficiant then I'll raise a "practical" point. People who feel uncomfortable in a group tend to react in one of three ways.
1. Don't contribute much if at all.
2. Withdraw completely.
3. Get hostile.
I can't think of any reason that we would want any of those things to happen.

I wonder how Philip Fuentes felt when he read cad's posts about "migrant" workers or even worse, his "apology" And even Helmswatch post.

I concur with these three reactionary responses and have seen them in the past when dealing with large groups. Also, I obviously do not have a firm grasp on the demographics of our membership either. I understand now why others were concerned about HW's INS post. I guess I was looking at the issue with too narrow of a focus.

D L

 

[SteveColes]

This is probably not a very good analogy, but I'll give it a try.

Assume you are speaking in front of a 500 person woodworking club. It could be on any topic, maybe it's even joke night.

What things would you say and how would you say them?