Silly Shop Vac Question...

[pslamp32]

So I was running through Home Depot for 'Black Friday' today and decided $20 for a Ridgid shop-vac was too good to pass up even though I already have 3 in the shop. Started looking for the bags for the unit and couldn't find the correct one. Decided to ask someone where they were and he said I shouldn't use a bag if I plan on using the filter and vice-verse. Explained that it was basically double filtering and wears out the motor faster and limits suction. I use bags AND filters on all my shop vacs but his advise made sense. If I plan on using a bag should I forgo the filter? Thanks!

 

[Travis Porter]

I use both on my Shop vac so I don't clog my filter up and if the bag tears I don't get a bunch of dust. Additionally, my Festool vac uses both.

 

[CarvedTones]

Bag???

I have never used one on a shopvac. I have never even seen one.

 

[pslamp32]

Bag???

I have never used one on a shopvac. I have never even seen one.

:icon_scra

Are you just kidding?

They look like this...

 

[CarvedTones]

Actually, no, I am not. ShopVacs come in so many different shapes and sizes, but all with the same filter. But bags? Seriously never seen one for sale or in use in a ShopVac. It must be a nightmare to stock them.

 

[CarvedTones]

OK, either I am majorly confused about what you are talking about or you're pulling my leg. If it is the latter, it worked; I went and actually looked. My ShopVacs (the ones I have now) have a smooth right angle just inside the intake and there is nowhere to attach a bag.

 

[Bas]

OK, either I am majorly confused about what you are talking about or you're pulling my leg. If it is the latter, it worked; I went and actually looked. My ShopVacs (the ones I have now) have a smooth right angle just inside the intake and there is nowhere to attach a bag.

Some vacuums (ShopVac, Ridgid, Fein, Festool, etc.) use bags, others don't. My Ridgid does not, although I've managed to Frankenbag a ShopVac bag a few times. But it's a lot of fiddling. My next vacuum will definitely have a bag capability, OR I'll get a pre-separator like the Dust Deputy.

 

[pslamp32]

So, do you use bag and filter or just one or the other?

 

[McRabbet]

Actually Andy, there are many models of ShopVac that can use a bag in addition to the various grade filters that one uses more commonly. The primary use for the bags are to capture drywall sanding dust and the are designed to fit over the curved entry port inside the unit and they nestle around the filter. I always used them when I connected up my ROS because they captured all of the very fine sawdust, but I didn't like their relatively high cost (they ran about $8 each in a 2-pack for my 16 gallon model). About 2 years ago, I bought a ClearVue CV06 mini cyclone and it captures almost 100% of the dust before it enters the ShopVac, thus eliminating the need for the filter bags. It also means that the filter stays cleaner longer.

If you check the supplies aisle at your local Lowe's, you'll find the bags for most of the models they carry. If you have evidence of dust around your ShopVac blower outlet, then you are breathing those superfine dust particles whenever you vacuum fine saw- or sanding dust. Invest in a set of bags and the dust will get captured.

OK, either I am majorly confused about what you are talking about or you're pulling my leg. If it is the latter, it worked; I went and actually looked. My ShopVacs (the ones I have now) have a smooth right angle just inside the intake and there is nowhere to attach a bag.

 

[pslamp32]

So Rob, you are saying that it is cool to use both the filter and bag? No over-filtration issues that would shorten the motor life? (Not that it really matters on a $20 shop vac I guess)

 

[CarvedTones]

Actually Andy, there are many models of ShopVac that can use a bag in addition to the various grade filters that one uses more commonly. The primary use for the bags are to capture drywall sanding dust and the are designed to fit over the curved entry port inside the unit and they nestle around the filter. I always used them when I connected up my ROS because they captured all of the very fine sawdust, but I didn't like their relatively high cost (they ran about $8 each in a 2-pack for my 16 gallon model). About 2 years ago, I bought a ClearVue CV06 mini cyclone and it captures almost 100% of the dust before it enters the ShopVac, thus eliminating the need for the filter bags. It also means that the filter stays cleaner longer.

If you check the supplies aisle at your local Lowe's, you'll find the bags for most of the models they carry. If you have evidence of dust around your ShopVac blower outlet, then you are breathing those superfine dust particles whenever you vacuum fine saw- or sanding dust. Invest in a set of bags and the dust will get captured.

I want to get a ClearVue or Dust Deputy. I had a Thiel separator, but it was too big for my little shop. I should probably make a smaller one. For now, I deputized a second shop vac as a chip collector, daisy chained. I don't turm it on, just pull air through it with the other ShopVac. I use the lousy foam filter in it and a CleanStream HEPA in the one I run. The ShopVac air cleaner is sitting nearby, about where the outlow from the little vac goes.

 

[McRabbet]

Sadly, ClearVue is no longer selling their mini-cyclones. See their website for the reasons.

To answer Peter's question, I did not believe my ShopVac was ever overloaded by having both the bag and cartridge filter in place. It reduced the airflow slightly, but as long as the bag was not overfilled, it was very efficient. Now that I use the ClearVue, I have eliminated using the bags -- flow is improved and almost no dust gets into the ShopVac tank.

 

[MarkE]

I have a small, wall-mounted shop vac that I use with a ROS and with the Kreg K3 set-up. I use both the filter and a filter bag.

Without the bag, the filter gets clogged up in just a few minutes of use with the sander. That's when you will notice a big decrease in suction. With the bag and filter combination the Shop Vac seems to work more efficiently since the filter does not get clogged up. I never let the beg get more than about halfway full.

 

[Glennbear]

Over the years I have used my vacs with Cleanstream filters both with and without bags. Autopsies I have performed on deceased vacs have shown that the cause of death is usually worn out bearings from dust bypassing filter media as opposed to overwork from too much filtration. The bags do make it easier to empty the vac. IMHO the greatest cause of vac death is sheetrock/spackle/plaster dust which by it's nature is highly abrasive. :wsmile:

 

[drw]

Peter, your question wasn't silly at all. This has been an interesting thread, I learned some things.

Cheers,
Donn

 

[CarvedTones]

Sadly, ClearVue is no longer selling their mini-cyclones. See their website for the reasons.

To answer Peter's question, I did not believe my ShopVac was ever overloaded by having both the bag and cartridge filter in place. It reduced the airflow slightly, but as long as the bag was not overfilled, it was very efficient. Now that I use the ClearVue, I have eliminated using the bags -- flow is improved and almost no dust gets into the ShopVac tank.

One of the things that has made me slow about improving my situation is how well my rediculous contraption works. I get next to nothing in the little vac. I don't draw much air; this is only suitable for power carving, sanding, getting the fines at the lathe (but not big chips) and general clean up.

 

[Travis Porter]

I use both filter and bag for a couple of reasons. First, it keeps the filter from getting clogged up, and secondly, it makes it much easier to clean out and empty the vac. I have a large shop vac, so it is tough to empty, plus, even though the bags say for sheetrock dust, they work very well for all dust.

 

[farmerbw]

I normally use both bag and filter as well. I upgraded to a new CleanStream filter a few months back and it seems I forgot to put a new bag back in when I did the swap and threw out the old bag. :BangHead::BangHead::qright5:

Boy did I notice that mistake real quick after the new filter clogged and suction went down while using it with the ROS.:kamahlitu I got a Dust Deputy kit for Christmas and need to get it set up in a temp configuration until I finish my garshop re-org/layout and attempt to put my DC and Shop vac in the attic with pipe runs to the locations where they'll be needed.

Brian.

 

[Cuprousworks]

+1 for bag and filter (belt and suspenders, I guess).

I have a Sears that uses a pleated filter that can be washed, I had my wife make a loose fitting over-bag to keep too much dust from getting into the pleats. The bag is oversized so it's easy to shake it clean. I find that it reduces the need to wash the filter and is quick to knock off drywall dust that accumulates. No reduction in performance that I am aware of, and it does not seem to raise the pitch of the motor to indicate additional load. I don't think it would be any worse than the reduced airflow if the filter were more clogged.