Side table - how best to affix the top

photostu

New User
Stuart
Hi guys, I'm building this outdoor umbrella side table and I have the frame finished. I'm looking for ideas on how best to affix the top and lower shelf.
You can see the lower shelf will just slide into place and be flush with the other side. The top will just sit on top of the frame. Both the shelf and top will have a circular cutout for the umbrella pole to fit into.

My current thought process is to use dowels. My concern is wood movement. I'm open to any ideas you guys may have or if you think this would be sufficient.

I built the side frames using only mortise and tenon joinery, this was very time consuming, but I wanted to learn this technique. I broke down and used dowels for the stretcher joinery, mainly cause I just want to finish this piece up.
The stock is white oak. Thanks for looking!
 

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Hmerkle

Board of Directors, Development Director
Hank
Staff member
Corporate Member
Stuart,
How will you make the top - one solid piece (multiple glued-up boards) or multiple boards mounted to the frame with gaps in between them?
If a solid top, I agree with Steve - the table top fasteners would be good - but you would want stainless steel fasteners.
 

Brantnative

Jeff
Corporate Member
I made some outdoor side tables of cypress and used floating tops like yours. I used the same fastener as shown by Zapdafish. A biscuit cutter set at the appropriate height makes the job easy. Used the fasteners on all four sides.
 

photostu

New User
Stuart
Stuart,
How will you make the top - one solid piece (multiple glued-up boards) or multiple boards mounted to the frame with gaps in between them?
If a solid top, I agree with Steve - the table top fasteners would be good - but you would want stainless steel fasteners.
It will be a solid piece that is glued up.

Are there any options that don't involve screws? I don't mind using the fasteners if they perform the job the best, but if there is a more traditional option, I would love to hear that idea too.
Thank you for the replies thus far :)
 

Hmerkle

Board of Directors, Development Director
Hank
Staff member
Corporate Member
It would still require some fasteners, but if you mounted rails to the bottom side of the table top(domino or dowels) and either press fit the rails to the interior of the frame or a through dowel into the center of the rail... just an "out there" kind of suggestion...
 

matt roberts

New User
matt
I've used the figure 8 table top fasteners in my builds. They are similar to those listed above but don't require the slot in the apron but still allow for some movement.
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
I use wooden cabinetmaker buttons which allow seasonal movement of your top. They're easy to make but each requires 1 screw to attach it to the underside of the top. I don't know of a method that doesn't involve screws to some extent.

 
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zapdafish

New User
Steve
If you dont want to use screws, sliding dovetails?

around 5:04 and around 7
This is the Overview video. I think he has this broken down into other videos with more details on each step
 

TENdriver

New User
TENdriver
Stuart,

Just thinking out loud here.

If I were building outdoors furniture in oak, I’d be concerned about staining and avoid any non-stainless steel fasteners. If not stainless, then bronze or brass.

You can make those figure 8s in brass or stainless if you need to.
 

photostu

New User
Stuart
Pictures will be forthcoming for sure!

I tried looking for SS figure 8s, the best I could find was zinc plated steel, which was better than just plain steel. Do you know where I could source this better suited for outdoors?
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
I think I've dec
Pictures will be forthcoming for sure!

I tried looking for SS figure 8s, the best I could find was zinc plated steel, which was better than just plain steel. Do you know where I could source this better suited for outdoors?

SS figure 8s are not available in stainless steel anywhere that I know of, but the zinc plated steel should be fine. The fasteners are sandwiched between the apron and top on the underside of the table top so a little corrosion over time isn't a show stopper.


The stock is white oak.
Any finish or are you leaving it as is?
 

Hmerkle

Board of Directors, Development Director
Hank
Staff member
Corporate Member
Stu,
You might try marine suppliers (boat people, boat furniture)

I went looking down that rabbit hole and saw this comment:
"Be aware that the "figure 8" type fasteners can only be used on the section of the apron that goes across the grain. In other words, they only work to allow movement when installed across the grain. This leaves the other two directions unsupported. "

I know you were concerned with wood movement...

I found another comment that disputes that:
"Personally, I really like the circle 8 fasteners. Never had a problem with rust. Think they allow the top to move so I've never had a problem with wood splitting. "

no stainless in my brief search... sorry for sending you down that rabbit hole!
 

photostu

New User
Stuart
I do intend to finish with a marine spar varnish. I spoke with someone at Klingspor's about this and they have a product they recommend. I'm sure its their most expensive, LOL. Open to suggestions for which actual product to go with. I know nothing will protect this table 100% and I may have to re-apply it, but that's ok for me. This table is only 21" square, so its not like its a 6' dining room table. I think the figure 8s will be nice to use and since I don't have a biscuit cutter yet, it makes the most sense for this project.

I have learned a lot with just this 1 table wrt cutting M&T. I cut the mortises first and lined up the stock for the tenons, its still very easy to get something off, so I have some joints that are not perfect by far. Towards the end, I got better at leaving extra meat on the tenon and sizing down slowly. I'm sure I could have knocked this table out in 1/4th the time with a Domino. Good thing I'm not creating pieces for a living yet.
 

TENdriver

New User
TENdriver
SS figure 8s are not available in stainless steel anywhere that I know of, but the zinc plated steel should be fine. The fasteners are sandwiched between the apron and top on the underside of the table top so a little corrosion over time isn't a show stopper.



Jeff, Something to consider, but have you ever seen what “a little (ferrous) corrosion” does to white oak?

If I was at home, I could post a photo of it. It’s not pretty and it can quickly deteriorate and become much worse over time.

Much easier and safer (at least for me) to avoid it altogether. But that’s just my experience.
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
Jeff, Something to consider, but have you ever seen what “a little (ferrous) corrosion” does to white oak?

If I was at home, I could post a photo of it. It’s not pretty and it can quickly deteriorate and become much worse over time.

Much easier and safer (at least for me) to avoid it altogether. But that’s just my experience.

Yep, I have seen it and the black stain that develops between iron and the tannins in the wood. I agree with you about SS and I like 308 or 316 SS metal for outdoor furniture and corrosion resistance. However, the location of the zinc coated figure 8 fasteners on the table shouldn't be a big problem even if some corrosion develops. Zinc and white oak may not have such a severe problem.
 

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