Shop build advice

[E.Y.]

I’m planning a 30x50 shop when I retire and would like to do as much as I can myself to hopefully save on cost but also because I enjoy projects. I have never built anything like this but have tools/equipment I can utilize (front end loader, air nailers etc). Conventional construction methods or a post frame build? I would like to finish similar to house which has fibrecement siding and standing seam metal roof.
I am not opposed to hiring professionals when necessary and build time is not critical.
Ideas/opinions?
Thanks,
E.Y.

 

[Michael Mathews]

If you're planning to have dust collection, consider running 4" or 6" PVC under the slab. That's what I did and I love it! I have stubs in the areas where I laid out my equipment locations. Works great! The one drawback is you can't rearrange your shop and move the equipment to new locations. Otherwise, it's really quite nice.

 

[SteveHall]

What kind of fit and finish are you looking to achieve?

To save cost, I recommend a conventionally framed building on a turned down slab. A timber frame will be more expensive because the lumber is larger and the connections (usually) require manufactured connectors. A "post frame" (aka pole barn) will be cheaper. But for either timber or post frame, you still have to build infill walls anyway, typically 2x4, to block rain, wind and hold insulation, panels/drywall, shelving, etc. I find frame–infill detailing incredibly painstaking—it's easier to just light frame the whole thing.

30' x 50' is pretty large—you'll need some structural logic embedded in the design to meet code and so it doesn't blow over. One solution is to find a truss manufacturer that will sell you the roof plus engineering for the wall and slab design.

 

[E.Y.]

What kind of fit and finish are you looking to achieve?

To save cost, I recommend a conventionally framed building on a turned down slab. A timber frame will be more expensive because the lumber is larger and the connections (usually) require manufactured connectors. A "post frame" (aka pole barn) will be cheaper. But for either timber or post frame, you still have to build infill walls anyway, typically 2x4, to block rain, wind and hold insulation, panels/drywall, shelving, etc. I find frame–infill detailing incredibly painstaking—it's easier to just light frame the whole thing.

30' x 50' is pretty large—you'll need some structural logic embedded in the design to meet code and so it doesn't blow over. One solution is to find a truss manufacturer that will sell you the roof plus engineering for the wall and slab design.

 

[chris_goris]

I just built one. 30 x 72 with 12 foot wide attic space above. It is divided so I have a 30 x 52 dedicated shop. I used 2x4 construction on a monolithic slab, engineered trusses 16" OC. Standard shingled roof and vertical alum siding. Im quite ambitious but I farmed out the whole job acting as the GC. a structure that size is not something you can dabble in by yourself to complete. Its just too big.

 

[scsmith42]

For a woodshop, building over a crawl space allows you to run the dust collection and electric under the floor, which is a great option.

However, it will not allow the building to be used as a conventional garage for for alternate automotive / metal fabrication type work.

I’d suggest 10’ ceilings. The inexpensive way to achieve that is to use standard length studs on top of a 24” cinderblock wall around the perimeter.

 

[SteveHall]

...engineered trusses..

Chris, just curious, did your truss manufacturer provide the engineering? Sealed drawings enough for permit?

 

[red]

I recently built a 26 x 36 freestanding building with 10' ceilings on a crawlspace with a full attic above. Don't forget to add a half bath! So glad the septic inspector talked me into doing that. With the crawl you can easily add outlets or dust collection anyplace in the workshop. And HVAC, I have a mini-split for heat/ac and it works awesome. Good luck.

Red

 

[Dorm]

EY ... about 4 years ago, I built a 24' x 24' pole barn. I contracted out pouring/finishing the concrete slab and installing the metal on the roof. I had some friends over one Saturday to help set the trusses (beer afterwards ) and other than those instances, I did the work by myself. Wall heights are 10', and I used a cathedral style truss, to give more headroom/clearance. I have a parlor wood stove, mainly to have a place to get warm by ... it gets very cold in there. The front opening is ~10' x 10' and I installed the doors on tracks to roll these from side to side just to make it simpler. The doors are roughly 10'-4" x 10'-4" to cover the opening and a little overlap. You can pick up the track roller system at Agri-Supply.

Last year I added a 12' x 20'ish lean-to shed off the back to store wood and enclosed a 6' x 10' section to put my air compressor and dust collection system in.

One thing I foolishly did not do was to wrap the walls with a Tyvek type material ... I wanted the natural appearance inside. The downside to this is the wind, especially in the winter, is very cold. Going back I would add this - appearances would have to suffer. Too, some of the RS SYP was not quite dry and over time the shrinking has opened some gaps between the battens ... I still say - it is just a barn - so I'm not too concerned. I plan to attach an outside shower to it at some point - the water supply is there ... just need to work this into the schedule.

It has served me very well, and I still seem to be somewhat cramped for space - but that's always the case right?

 

[marvinlee]

I’m planning a 30x50 shop when I retire and would like to do as much as I can myself to hopefully save on cost but also because I enjoy projects. I have never built anything like this but have tools/equipment I can utilize (front end loader, air nailers etc). Conventional construction methods or a post frame build? I would like to finish similar to house which has fibrecement siding and standing seam metal roof.
I am not opposed to hiring professionals when necessary and build time is not critical.
Ideas/opinions?
Thanks,
E.Y.

If you may want to put vertical loads on the inside long walls, for example hanging a central vacuum, shelves, lumber storage, etc., then a stub wall somewhere along the long sides will stiffen the building against such loads. Stub walls turn out to be handy for many purposes. Fluorescent T5HO twin tube light fixtures screwed to the ceiling joists work well for me, but LED lights are coming on strong. Doing the building is certainly feasible and a local library should have any book knowledge needed. My wife and I built ours 35 years ago and it has worked well. Insulation in the walls and a minisplit would help on both heat and cold. We put all of ours in except for evacuating the lines which a local shop did for us. Best wishes for a great shop!

 

[E.Y.]

If you may want to put vertical loads on the inside long walls, for example hanging a central vacuum, shelves, lumber storage, etc., then a stub wall somewhere along the long sides will stiffen the building against such loads. Stub walls turn out to be handy for many purposes. Fluorescent T5HO twin tube light fixtures screwed to the ceiling joists work well for me, but LED lights are coming on strong. Doing the building is certainly feasible and a local library should have any book knowledge needed. My wife and I built ours 35 years ago and it has worked well. Insulation in the walls and a minisplit would help on both heat and cold. We put all of ours in except for evacuating the lines which a local shop did for us. Best wishes for a great shop!

Thanks and I’m leaning toward conventional stud wall construction. How big was your build? You did the framing?

 

[E.Y.]

If you're planning to have dust collection, consider running 4" or 6" PVC under the slab. That's what I did and I love it! I have stubs in the areas where I laid out my equipment locations. Works great! The one drawback is you can't rearrange your shop and move the equipment to new locations. Otherwise, it's really quite nice.

 

[E.Y.]

Did you build conventionally and if so estimated cost per foot?
Thanks

 

[E.Y.]

What kind of fit and finish are you looking to achieve?

To save cost, I recommend a conventionally framed building on a turned down slab. A timber frame will be more expensive because the lumber is larger and the connections (usually) require manufactured connectors. A "post frame" (aka pole barn) will be cheaper. But for either timber or post frame, you still have to build infill walls anyway, typically 2x4, to block rain, wind and hold insulation, panels/drywall, shelving, etc. I find frame–infill detailing incredibly painstaking—it's easier to just light frame the whole thing.

30' x 50' is pretty large—you'll need some structural logic embedded in the design to meet code and so it doesn't blow over. One solution is to find a truss manufacturer that will sell you the roof plus engineering for the wall and slab design.

What would be a realistic cost per foot guess conventional with slab as you described?

 

[E.Y.]

EY ... about 4 years ago, I built a 24' x 24' pole barn. I contracted out pouring/finishing the concrete slab and installing the metal on the roof. I had some friends over one Saturday to help set the trusses (beer afterwards ) and other than those instances, I did the work by myself. Wall heights are 10', and I used a cathedral style truss, to give more headroom/clearance. I have a parlor wood stove, mainly to have a place to get warm by ... it gets very cold in there. The front opening is ~10' x 10' and I installed the doors on tracks to roll these from side to side just to make it simpler. The doors are roughly 10'-4" x 10'-4" to cover the opening and a little overlap. You can pick up the track roller system at Agri-Supply.

Last year I added a 12' x 20'ish lean-to shed off the back to store wood and enclosed a 6' x 10' section to put my air compressor and dust collection system in.

One thing I foolishly did not do was to wrap the walls with a Tyvek type material ... I wanted the natural appearance inside. The downside to this is the wind, especially in the winter, is very cold. Going back I would add this - appearances would have to suffer. Too, some of the RS SYP was not quite dry and over time the shrinking has opened some gaps between the battens ... I still say - it is just a barn - so I'm not too concerned. I plan to attach an outside shower to it at some point - the water supply is there ... just need to work this into the schedule.

It has served me very well, and I still seem to be somewhat cramped for space - but that's always the case right?

That looks good! Why did you choose pole over conventional? Can you estimate per foot cost?

 

[E.Y.]

I just built one. 30 x 72 with 12 foot wide attic space above. It is divided so I have a 30 x 52 dedicated shop. I used 2x4 construction on a monolithic slab, engineered trusses 16" OC. Standard shingled roof and vertical alum siding. Im quite ambitious but I farmed out the whole job acting as the GC. a structure that size is not something you can dabble in by yourself to complete. Its just too big.

Estimated cost per foot the way you did yours?
Thanks

 

[marvinlee]

Thanks and I’m leaning toward conventional stud wall construction. How big was your build? You did the framing?
[/QUOTE
We made ours 24x36. Your size would, I think, be better. We did all the construction except for the poured concrete slab with downturned edges. The framing was very doable. We built each wall on the floor, except for interior paneling, then lifted it up with some cheap wall jacks. Some manuevering was necessary on the end walls. After nailing the wall corners together, a local truss company brought out roof trusses and lifted them up on the wall tops, but laying flat. If you might want to have a hoist, the truss company can make one or more trusses to accept the load. The two of us were able to lift each truss into its final position and nail on temporary bracing until we put on the plywood sheathing. If you prefer not to spend time framing, there are framing specialists who can erect framing with astonishing speed. The best thing I did was to panel the inside walls with plywood and paint them white.

 

[SteveHall]

What would be a realistic cost per foot guess conventional with slab as you described?

It's hard to say. Everybody's "realistic" and "conventional" are so different. (Usually enables fun conversations here on NCWW!) For example, here's my shop-planning checklist with many variations in case it helps:

• delivery : self-build, act as general (subcontract everything), hire licensed and insured general contractor
• site : clearing, qty. of grading, retaining, drives and walks, setbacks, easements/right-of-ways
• utilities : access to septic/sewer, electrical, water, gas
• foundation : slab, crawlspace, decorative treatments, loading capacities (huge old iron planer, vehicle parking)
• framing : extra tall walls (10'-12'), "cathedral" ceiling, extra interior walls for storage, dedicated spray room, blocking for hanging shelves or equipment, stairs to attic
• envelope : basic siding over frame, weather-resistive barrier (Tyvek), water-resistive barrier (Zip System), batt or spray foam insulation, siding in wood, vinyl, FRC, or brick
• roofing : cheap asphalt, quality architectural shingle, metal, wood shakes, steep pitch (attic), gutters and downspouts, copper flashing
• finishes : drywall vs panels, painting, detailed trim
• flooring : exposed slab, quality epoxy, VCT, T&G wood on sleepers, loading requirements
• windows : sizes, quality
• doors : quantity, grade, roll-up, barn doors, attic access
• furnishings : cabinets, counters, shelving, tables
• equipment : refrigerator, ice maker
• conveying : lift, hoist, elevator, pit
• plumbing : sink, water heater, ice maker, air lines, toilet, shower
• HVAC : none, gas heat, window unit, full AC
• finishing : dedicated room, spray booth, filtered intake/exhaust, special lighting
• dust collection : roll-around machine, cyclone in corner, dedicated room, exposed 6" duct, under-floor ducting
• electrical : 3-phase, 400A with wiring in the walls, 100A with a dozen circuits, 60A with three circuits, GFCI
• lighting : 100 footcandles vs 50 vs 10, color quality, exterior lighting, occupancy sensors, emergency lighting on battery
• other : data and wireless, security, kitchenette or bar, lounge/TV area, heavy duty lumber storage, sound system

What did I miss?

I could imagine a bare bones, DIY shop in found/surplus materials for $10/SF, and a boat-builder's dream cabin for $400/SF.

 

[Jeff]

Where are you located in NC?

I am not opposed to hiring professionals when necessary and build time is not critical.

So hire a professional builder. They'll take care of all of the details (building permits, etc) and build a sturdy and stable building with insulation, heating, cooling, etc.

You can then do the interior details to customize that "shell" to your needs.

 

[marvinlee]

It's hard to say. Everybody's "realistic" and "conventional" are so different. (Usually enables fun conversations here on NCWW!) For example, here's my shop-planning checklist with many variations in case it helps:

• delivery : self-build, act as general (subcontract everything), hire licensed and insured general contractor
• site : clearing, qty. of grading, retaining, drives and walks, setbacks, easements/right-of-ways
• utilities : access to septic/sewer, electrical, water, gas
• foundation : slab, crawlspace, decorative treatments, loading capacities (huge old iron planer, vehicle parking)
• framing : extra tall walls (10'-12'), "cathedral" ceiling, extra interior walls for storage, dedicated spray room, blocking for hanging shelves or equipment, stairs to attic
• envelope : basic siding over frame, weather-resistive barrier (Tyvek), water-resistive barrier (Zip System), batt or spray foam insulation, siding in wood, vinyl, FRC, or brick
• roofing : cheap asphalt, quality architectural shingle, metal, wood shakes, steep pitch (attic), gutters and downspouts, copper flashing
• finishes : drywall vs panels, painting, detailed trim
• flooring : exposed slab, quality epoxy, VCT, T&G wood on sleepers, loading requirements
• windows : sizes, quality
• doors : quantity, grade, roll-up, barn doors, attic access
• furnishings : cabinets, counters, shelving, tables
• equipment : refrigerator, ice maker
• conveying : lift, hoist, elevator, pit
• plumbing : sink, water heater, ice maker, air lines, toilet, shower
• HVAC : none, gas heat, window unit, full AC
• finishing : dedicated room, spray booth, filtered intake/exhaust, special lighting
• dust collection : roll-around machine, cyclone in corner, dedicated room, exposed 6" duct, under-floor ducting
• electrical : 3-phase, 400A with wiring in the walls, 100A with a dozen circuits, 60A with three circuits, GFCI
• lighting : 100 footcandles vs 50 vs 10, color quality, exterior lighting, occupancy sensors, emergency lighting on battery
• other : data and wireless, security, kitchenette or bar, lounge/TV area, heavy duty lumber storage, sound system

What did I miss?

I could imagine a bare bones, DIY shop in found/surplus materials for $10/SF, and a boat-builder's dream cabin for $400/SF.