Screwy screws

[nmanley]

I'm building a writing table out of quarter sawn white oak. I'll admit this is the hardest wood I've ever worked with in my very short time in woodworking. The plans call for #8 fh woodscrews in a variety of lengths. So I went down to Lowes and bought a few packages. However, I am having a heck of a time using them. I keep rounding out the extremely soft heads or snapping the heads off when the screw nears the bottom of the hole, or bottoms out. This project has 3 broken screw shafts in it that are irretrievable.

I have been predrilling and countersinking, but it's not helping much. I also have a fresh tip in my driver. These screws just seem to be real junk. The box says they are from the Hillman Company in Cincinnati, OH, but made in China. Lowes doesn't carry anything else for flathead woodscrews.

So what do you guys use for hardwood screw joinery? And where do you get them?

 

[decibel]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I've been using screws that I ordered from McFeely's at http://www.mcfeelys.com/ I use the square driver screws (or the combo heads that work with square drive or phillips). I've had great luck with square heads and haven't stripped them.

I've also used Spax screws which you can get from mcfeelys and I've seen them at home depot. They seem like great screws as well but can get a bit pricey.

I'm an internet ordering freak so hopefully somebody else chimes with local sources:thumbs_up

 

[kirkpj01]

I get my screws from Klingspor's Woodworking Shop in Raleigh. They have the Phillips/square drive screws. I have had good luck with those.....

 

[Mt. Gomer]

I also highly recommed the screws from McFeely's. I'll use big box stuff for quick knock togethers or less important things but if I care at all about it holding together for any length of time I use the good stuff from McFeely's.

As for pre-drilling, are you sure you're using a large enough diameter pilot hole? It should be about the same size as the shaft of the screws. It could also be the threads on the screws themselves. Screws designed for softwoods of deeper threads spaced farther apart. For hardwoods the threads are finer....

Travis

 

[Kenderc]

You may also want to try putting a little beeswax on the screw threads. An easy place to get some are wax rings used for toilet installations. Good Luck

 

[ptt49er]

Or you can keep a stick of paraffin wax (from the canning section in the grocery store) near by. It comes in handy for lots of stuff around the shop.

 

[CrealBilly]

Since most stuff nowadays is being manufactured in far away lands... off the shelf fasteners (including nails) at most home supply centers are not what they used to be. I have a pretty good relationship with my local hardware store, they all know I woodwork and when I go in for screws they give me good ones or else I bring them back. Perhaps the best place to get screws for woodworking is @ http://www.mcfeelys.com/ go with the square head screws.

My advise would be to take them screws back to Lowes, tell them they are "Sorry" (southern word for garbage) and get your refund on a Lowes card so you can buy more sorry stuff.

Thanks

 

[Bas]

McFeelys. Lately they've had $1 shipping. Be warned, once you start using their screws your existing stock of Home Depot/ Lowe's screws will instantly be sent to the back of the cabinet and remain there forever! The square drive means no more stripped heads, and out of 1000's I've broken only one screw so far. Granted, I was using my impact driver to force it into what turned out to be a steel plate....

Oh, and they're cheaper than the screws you buy at Home Depot/ Lowe's too.

 

[Bigdog72]

Or you can keep a stick of paraffin wax (from the canning section in the grocery store) near by. It comes in handy for lots of stuff around the shop.

Plain old candle wax will work in a pinch!

 

[zapdafish]

I'll throw my support behind square and star drive screws too. In fact, I throw out any screws that come with any hardware I buy now. The highland screws from woodcraft arent bad, havent gotten around to buying from mcfeelies yet although I know I really should.

I also use my kreg pocket holes screws for things other than pocket holes.

 

[Bill Clemmons]

If you don't want to wait for shipping, you might try to find a Fastenal location. They have stores all over the place. I've used them a few times.

Bill

 

[red]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I've been using screws that I ordered from McFeely's at http://www.mcfeelys.com/ I use the square driver screws (or the combo heads that work with square drive or phillips). I've had great luck with square heads and haven't stripped them.

This is the best place to get quality screws. I have used thousands of their screws over the years and don't think I broke more than two or three. With $1 shipping lately, stock up!

Red

 

[ehpoole]

Just for clarity since I don't see it mentioned in the OP. Are you using brass or steel screws? Brass screws are notorious for the troubles you are encountering and you should prepare the hole with an equivalent steel screw before driving home the brass screw.

I ask because I use HD and Lowes screws quite regularly and seldom encounter the problems you are experiencing (even with the tiny #4 screws).

Another possibility is that your pilot bit is too small for the screw you are using. The pilot hole in hardwood should typically be a bit larger than that used in softer woods because hardwoods do not deform to accommadate the shank and threads as easily as softer woods will. If the pilot hole is properly sized you should not require an extreme amount of force to drive the screw home. If the pilot hole is undersized, then you will require a very extraordinary amount of force to drive home the screw and may even split your wood (now or in the future) from the stresses created within the board from forcing the screw into an undersized hole.

 

[Jeff]

+1 on McFeely square drive screws, Kreg pocket hole screws, and wax. A traditional FH wood screw has a TAPERED shaft. The modern screws of today have shafts of uniform diameter over their length and the thread design is improved to make them easier to drive. :thumbs_up

 

[Jeff]

Nick,

I forgot to include this link about modern wood screws. It's informative and may help you out. Yes, white oak is some pretty hard stuff, but with some information you can tackle it without twisting off screws and all of that aggravation.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/Materials/MaterialsPDF.aspx?id=2838

 

[merrill77]

I went through the same experience many years ago. Someone pointed me to McFeelys and I no longer torture myself with sub-par screws from the big-box stores.

It's a sad state of affairs when you can't get a decent quality screw at a home improvement store! Kmart, Target, Wal-Mart I could understand. But a hardware store? Sad.

 

[Dean Maiorano]

+1 McFeeleys

+1 Home Depot has Spax screws. If you haven't tried them you need to. It has a self piloting thread pattern that chews it's own way through the wood.

What you might find most useful is the self tapping/self piloting "Type 17/Auger" tip design. It's the one where there is a short (3/16" - 1/4" or more) grove cut into the screw tip. It allows the screw to act as its own drill bit, without the need to two step the job. The poster on FWW probably has a picture of it but I couldn't verify that as I don't have an account. This point/tip option is available on a number of screw styles, thread types and material types. McFeely's uses the "Auger Point" name and has it in several woodworking varieties. I point this tip type out because you can buy just 'regular' woodworking screws on McFeely's et. al, without getting the auger tip included.

My personal favorites are the newer star bit/torx flat (bugle) head screws. Can't strip them out for trying, the bit goes out before the screw does. I've seen them at the Big Box DIY stores and Capital City Lumber (if you're in Raleigh), the latter specifically having great prices as I believe they may be or may have discontinued them (come to think of it, call ahead to CCL to make sure they have any decent stock left, if interested). HD does have some of the Spax brand in torx configuration. I believe Ace has these in the epoxy finishes but they are pricey. I am not connected to any of the stores or brands so named, in any way shape or form.

Dean

Dean

 

[Kenderc]

Charles Neil put out a video today on tips for screws...coincidence? Fits this thread quite nicely, and he even mentions the 'toilet bowl ring'. lol. Check it out on his website, http://charlesneilwoodworking.com/

 

[nmanley]

Thanks, everyone! Great info. The Charles Neil video was good timing, for sure. As it happens I have a Fastenal near me, so I will check that out. McFeely's looks like an excellent resource, too.

Regarding the pilot holes. Yes, I made pilot holes. The way I was taught to size pilot holes was to place the shank of the drill bit on top of the screw shank, and if you could see the screw threads but not the screw shank, that was the bit to use. Charles Neil showed that was not necessarily true. So I'll change the way I do that. To the other question; I have been using steel screws, not brass. The ones I have been using are Hillman (I think) from Lowes. I don't have a Home Depot near me. They seem to be extraordinarily soft.

As an aside, Charles Neil brought up a good point about using water based finishes on projects where you've used steel screws. That's something that a rookie like myself probably wouldn't think about. The finish I have picked out for my project is an oil-based stain, but only because it was recommended, not because I knew any better.