sawstop recommendations

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Tim Sherwood

Tim
Corporate Member
My Delta contractors saw and I have been partners for 15 years. That ended last Friday when it chewed off a chunk of my finger.

I am the woodshop teacher for two of our grandkids. I feel really sick when I think about "what if ".

So, I am going to order a Sawstop contractors saw. Adding a riving knife and an overarm blade guard to my Delta ,would PROBABLY be enough. But I owe them as much protection as I can buy.

There seem to be a lot of options for the Sawstop. Does anyone have any thoughts on necessary extras for their bare bones contractors saw?
 

Bill Clemmons

Bill
Corporate Member
Dang Tim, I'm sorry to hear about your finger. I hope that doesn't keep you from lunch Thursday. :nah: Hope you're healing okay.

Bill
 

Windy

New User
Windy
We bought the optional cast iron wings ~$200 because the ones that come with the saw are flimsy. Then we added an HTC mobile base ~$70. We didn't like the sawstop mobile base which was $100+ more. Then we added an Incra Jig ~$350+. If I remember correctly you can order the saw without the fence and it reduces the price ~$100+. It is a great saw that cuts 45's perfectly out of the box, it has never kicked back however small drop pieces shorter then the distance to the riving knife can be thrown violently (this will happen with any saw). The saw has already been set off twice and prevented what could have been one serious accident by an inexperienced user cutting a 45 from the left table, a big no no on any table saw. We purchased the contractor saw only because at the time sawstop did not offer the cabinet saw in 120v and we didn't have 3-phase power. Now we do and plan on adding the cabinet sawstop to our shop in the near future. I highly recommend the sawstop especially when you have grandkids involved. We sold our other table saw after getting the sawstop - Windy
 

Ken Massingale

New User
Ken
220 doesn't have to be 3 phase. Your dryer is 220 volt single phase.

We bought the optional cast iron wings ~$200 because the ones that come with the saw are flimsy. Then we added an HTC mobile base ~$70. We didn't like the sawstop mobile base which was $100+ more. Then we added an Incra Jig ~$350+. If I remember correctly you can order the saw without the fence and it reduces the price ~$100+. It is a great saw that cuts 45's perfectly out of the box, it has never kicked back however small drop pieces shorter then the distance to the riving knife can be thrown violently (this will happen with any saw). The saw has already been set off twice and prevented what could have been one serious accident by a inexperienced user cutting a 45 from the left table, a big no no on any table saw. We purchased the contractor saw only because at the time sawstop did not offer the cabinet saw in 120v and we didn't have 3-phase power. Now we do and plan on adding the cabinet sawstop to our shop in the near future.
 

Tim Sherwood

Tim
Corporate Member
Thanks to all for the sympathetic words. I've only been a member for a few months, and I am really impressed with the friendliness of this group.
 

Russ Denz

New User
Russ
Tim,
I, too, want to wish you a speedy recovery, and also to respond to your SawStop question, as I have owned two of them.

Being handicapped and working from a wheelchair, getting the LOML to buy-in to my desire to start woodworking again (after a 50 yr hiatus) was something I wasn't looking forward to. When I showed her a SawStop ad a few years ago she said "you have got to get one of those!" Begrudgingly :rolf:, I agreed , and so I got a Contractor's saw; it only took a couple of weeks before I triggered the brake (on an aluminum extrusion...that doesn't even have a nick in it!) When we decided to move back to the family in Arizona, I sold it to a fellow NCWWer. The ONLY complaint I had about the C.S. was the inadequate dust collection; that was a few years ago - before they improved it.

A few months later, when I realized selling the property might take a while I bought the newly introduced PCS (Professional Cabinet Saw), and although I don't use it nearly as much as most of you use yours, I absolutely love it!! And the dust collection problem was history, especially after installing the overhead option that attached to the blade guard - a MUST imho, yet useless if you remove the blade guard like a lot of people do. This time I got the big 52" model - mainly because I'm too lazy to build my own outfeed and side tables...but they DO look nice. Oh, and the cast iron tables for sure - very solid. Forgetting all about the SawStop brake, it's claim to fame, I find it to be a very high quality tablesaw, both in fit & finish and features, not to mention accuracy, stability, assembly directions a third-grader could follow, and support from their Customer Service team.

I know there is a lot of angst concerning the politics of the saw, some of which I agree with, but if you can get past that I think you will be pleased with your purchase. "Quality (or lack of it) is remembered long after the price is forgotten" is particularly appropriate to the SawStop. So buy what you think you'll need and go with it; other accessories can always be added later. Good luck.
Russ
 

Tim Sherwood

Tim
Corporate Member
Thanks Russ! Can you give me some of your reasoning behind upgrading to the Professional cabinet saw, over the contractors model? It appears that there is a lot of price overlap when you factor in all the "like-to-have " options.
 

Russ Denz

New User
Russ
Tim,
It wasn't a straight 'upgrade' because a couple of months had passed; in other words I didn't sell the contractors to buy the PCS. I wanted a Cabinet saw before I bought the Contractors, but had not yet established my "value-index" regarding table saws, and so didn't want to fork over the money for a cabinet saw; besides, at the time I bought the Contractors Saw, SawStop wasn't making the PCS, but rather a full-blown big-as-a-house, super heavy duty (did I make my point?) saw that was made for and priced for a true professional market - can't remember the model numbers, but they are still in production. The PCS was a newly-introduced mid-sized (??), lower-priced, lower-powered cabinet saw, probably directed to the serious-hobbyist market. And, the PCS had the new, "revolutionary" (woo hoo) dust collection system with 90+% efficiency; that was my hot button, and the price wasn't that much higher so I pulled the trigger on the PCS and haven't looked back. I got the overhead, blade guard dust collection da 'kine when it came out and it was even better - for me anyway. Now I have a piece-of-work tablesaw that does everything I want a tablesaw to do, and do it right - well above my skill level...and it makes my wife happy; what more can you ask for - for a hobbiest. Depending on how you plan on using your saw, my reasons may or may not be relevant to your needs/wants. Bottom line is : it's YOUR call.

p.s.: I don't expect to have as big a shop when we move ($$$), so I'd like to find another PCS owner, one who bought the 36" table and now wants more capacity, to swap out tables for my 52"er. I've rambled on, but have I answered your question?

IMHO, the short answer is "Quality remains long after the price is forgotten"
 

merrill77

Master Scrap Maker
Chris
Tim, best wishes for a speedy recovery!

I too had a Delta contractors saw, for nearly 20 years. I did everything I ever asked from it and did it well. Between my own safety concerns, having 3 sons who may someday want to use the saw as well as occasionally allowing my friends to use my shop, I also decided to upgrade to a SawStop.

The big cabinet saw was way out of my budget so I watched out for deal on the contractor saw for a long time. Just missed out on buying Mr Denz's saw. Last Christmas I finally gave in and went to Woodcraft to place an order. I wanted the 2 cast wings, the 36" fence, the dust-collection blade guard and the mobile base. At that point the upgrade cost to the 120V PCS was under $500, IIRC, due to a special promotion. So I went with that option for the increased robustness and accuracy of the trunion in that model (though arguably, it makes little difference in the work I produce).

But, back to your question - When I was planning to buy the CS, my thoughts went like this: If the stamped steel wings were nice and flat, I would have stayed with them. I chose the cast wings to have a big flat surface in my shop that is _really_ flat - very handy during the assembly stage or any other time I need a dead-flat reference surface. My shop is small, so a mobile base is a MUST for me. I could build my own, as I've done for many of my other tools, but the SS mobile base seems to work very well, so I'd planned on buying that as well. I found the 36" fence to be a bit sturdier and more accurate than the 30" fence. IMO, the fence is one of the most important parts of the saw, so I had no desire to save money there. Could I have survived without any of these? certainly. It would still have satisfied my prime motivation - keeping my fingers.

That's my 2c.
 

Tim Sherwood

Tim
Corporate Member
Thanks for sharing your experience with me. Sounds like you considered the options carefully. Nothing left for me to do, other than writing a check!
 

drw

Donn
Corporate Member
Tim,
I too have a SawStop and I have never regretted the purchase. Just like you, one of the factors that motivated the decision to buy SawStop was my grandchildren. I always say that I made the purchase because I knew their mothers would never let them near the shop if I didn't have the added safety features. That said, it is by all measures an outstanding saw, and it does provide a little extra peace-of-mind.

Donn
 

reprosser

New User
Rick
I have the PCS as well, and am very happy with it.

I would consider the contractor version if I had a big need for job site portability, but otherwise would stay with the PCS.

This is a solid, quality saw - and I like the extra insurance that I hope I never need.
 

junquecol

Bruce
Senior User
Tim sorry for your injuries, but I have to ask. What kind of guard was on your CS when you cut your digits? You wouldn't buy a SawStop, and disable the mech, so why do people (myself included) use a saw without a guard? Unfortunately most saw accidents are the result of a loose nut - the one operating it. This type things reminds me of boaters who drown. Since Harris, Falls, and Jordon have been open, not once have they retrieved a drowning victim who was wearing a life vest. On my boat, before the motor is cranked, EVERYONE must have on a life vest. I'm afraid that Saw Stops idea is going to give a false sense of security. It will at some point fail, and then there will be a MAJOR lawsuit
 

reprosser

New User
Rick
Unfortunately most saw accidents are the result of a loose nut - the one operating it.

I would agree that a lot of table saw injuries are the result of a loose nut :gar-La;, but even the most experienced, safety conscious person can have an accident...and it only takes one:cry_smile

I'm afraid that Saw Stops idea is going to give a false sense of security.

I am puzzled about why I see this comment on most every Sawstop thread I have read.
Do you drive your car less safely because you have air bags and seat belts in case of an accident? Do you create unsafe situations in your home because you have insurance to cover losses? I don't even think about the safety brake insurance I have with my Sawstop. (except when I read a SS thread) I concentrate on making the most correct and safe cut I can make. I may be more focused since I don't want to have to replace a brake and blade.

It will at some point fail, and then there will be a MAJOR lawsuit

Sawstop does not guarantee that you will not injure yourself. Wearing a hard hat in a construction zone does not guarantee that a falling brick will not kill you either. I have no illusions that the brake ill work 100% of the time. Eventually there will be a failure - and it may be me. Sawstop just gives me some insurance that IF something goes bad, then I have the possibility that the brake may reduce the injury and save my fingers. That possibility does not exist yet on another table saw that I know of. I hope I never have to test it - and if an accident were to happen, the brake might fail, but it was worth the insurance for me to purchase the Sawstop. You get to make your own choice (For now anyway...) The first lawsuit will be well documented, I am sure:mrgreen:

Hope I have not derailed this thread too far...
 

merrill77

Master Scrap Maker
Chris
Tim sorry for your injuries, but I have to ask. What kind of guard was on your CS when you cut your digits? You wouldn't buy a SawStop, and disable the mech, so why do people (myself included) use a saw without a guard?

Because they are constantly in the way and cumbersome install/remove. Neither of which applies to the sawstop flesh-detection mechanism. Apples to oranges.

I'm afraid that Saw Stops idea is going to give a false sense of
security.

Perhaps that might apply to you (I don't know...but you brought it up, so I made the leap), but it certainly does not apply to me. There's no way I'm dropping that kind of cash on a safety device and then get hurt from kickback or something else stupid. When I bought my Sawstop, I also invested in a pair of Grrrripppers, built a good outfeed table and I use the riving knife whenever the operation allows...which is just about always. I still don't use the blade guard, though...never have, perhaps I will someday.

And if you noticed the other threads, many of us have concerns about the safety of others. I occasionally allow friends to use my shop. And then there are my kids. In both cases, I can try to teach them safe operations, but that only goes so far, and I have no experience in safety instruction. I can lock the door to my workshop, but I have no illusion that at some point my boys won't be able to get in anyway. For me, it was a small price to pay for the added safety. Will a SawStop fail someday? The odds are good - yes. Will it be me? The odds are miniscule. What are the odds of me eventually taking off a finger without one? If the number of finger injury reports on this site are any indication - much higher than I'm comfortable with.

Chris
 

Asheville Hardware

New User
Asheville Hardware
We bought the optional cast iron wings ~$200 because the ones that come with the saw are flimsy. Then we added an HTC mobile base ~$70. We didn't like the sawstop mobile base which was $100+ more. Then we added an Incra Jig ~$350+. If I remember correctly you can order the saw without the fence and it reduces the price ~$100+. It is a great saw that cuts 45's perfectly out of the box, it has never kicked back however small drop pieces shorter then the distance to the riving knife can be thrown violently (this will happen with any saw). The saw has already been set off twice and prevented what could have been one serious accident by an inexperienced user cutting a 45 from the left table, a big no no on any table saw. We purchased the contractor saw only because at the time sawstop did not offer the cabinet saw in 120v and we didn't have 3-phase power. Now we do and plan on adding the cabinet sawstop to our shop in the near future. I highly recommend the sawstop especially when you have grandkids involved. We sold our other table saw after getting the sawstop - Windy

Windy, would love to hear what it is about the Sawstop mobile base that you didn't like. I'm assuming the base for the contractor's saw is a lot different than the cabinet saws? I've been pretty impressed with that base myself, but I'm not as familiar with the Contractor saw.

Scott
 
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