Sad state of affairs for SYP

Oka

Casey
Corporate Member
Funny, I have Framed literally hundreds of buildings, mostly homes and light commercial. 90% of of the material we used was Doug fir since I was on the west coast.. When I moved to the south, the first thing I found odd was the lack of 4x12 and 4x14 as a common supplied item. the other was Doug fir and Redwood were hard to come by. Hemlock fir was more common than spf was. We used to call Hem Fir "piss-fir" it smelled that way when cutting and was not very reliable wood.
 

Brantnative

Jeff
Corporate Member
When you see a log truck around the SE you see it loaded with a few dozen scrabbly little pines. In the NW it's usual to see a truck go by filled with maybe five or six individual logs.
 

Jeff

Jeff
Corporate Member
When you see a log truck around the SE you see it loaded with a few dozen scrabbly little pines. In the NW it's usual to see a truck go by filled with maybe five or six individual logs.

Those "scrabbly" logs are destined for pulp wood or plywood, not construction lumber. Here is Eastern White Pine used for construction lumber:

 

junquecol

Bruce
User
We own about 3 acres, which has 60+ year old pine on it. Fetches around $3000 an acre, and cost $10- 15K an acre to clean up the mess left after logging. Plus, Wake County has a "stump tax, which means we either replant or pay them two bucks per tree. We have many trees that are more than 24" diameter at the four foot height. In the seventies / early eighties, Union Camp had a saw mill just west of Franklin VA. Saw logs were first debarked, sawn onto lumber which was kiln dried, and the rest chipped as feeder stock for their paper mill in Franklin (now closed.) The bark was stored inside an eight foot high fence with razor wire on the top, while lumber was stored on the open yard. Shows what was the most valuable.
 

Sourwould

Taylor
Senior User
We own about 3 acres, which has 60+ year old pine on it. Fetches around $3000 an acre, and cost $10- 15K an acre to clean up the mess left after logging. Plus, Wake County has a "stump tax, which means we either replant or pay them two bucks per tree. We have many trees that are more than 24" diameter at the four foot height. In the seventies / early eighties, Union Camp had a saw mill just west of Franklin VA. Saw logs were first debarked, sawn onto lumber which was kiln dried, and the rest chipped as feeder stock for their paper mill in Franklin (now closed.) The bark was stored inside an eight foot high fence with razor wire on the top, while lumber was stored on the open yard. Shows what was the most valuable.
This is interesting. Is the $3k an acre for clear cut?

I was under the impression that pine logging cycle was supposed to be 80 years. I could be wrong or that might be outdated. Used to spend a good amount of time in the bent creek experimental forest, but that was years ago.
 

CrealBilly

Jeff
Senior User
This is interesting. Is the $3k an acre for clear cut?

I was under the impression that pine logging cycle was supposed to be 80 years. I could be wrong or that might be outdated. Used to spend a good amount of time in the bent creek experimental forest, but that was years ago.
SYP 30 years +
 

CrealBilly

Jeff
Senior User
We own about 3 acres, which has 60+ year old pine on it. Fetches around $3000 an acre, and cost $10- 15K an acre to clean up the mess left after logging. Plus, Wake County has a "stump tax, which means we either replant or pay them two bucks per tree. We have many trees that are more than 24" diameter at the four foot height. In the seventies / early eighties, Union Camp had a saw mill just west of Franklin VA. Saw logs were first debarked, sawn onto lumber which was kiln dried, and the rest chipped as feeder stock for their paper mill in Franklin (now closed.) The bark was stored inside an eight foot high fence with razor wire on the top, while lumber was stored on the open yard. Shows what was the most valuable.
500 SYP per acre was common for planted pine when I lived in NC. Loggers pay you $3000.00 per acre to clear cut, which you already know is robbery. The problem you face is 60 year old SYP is past it's prime for market. If it's not already happening, expect lots of windfalls due to rot, mainly caused by bark beetles and other insects.
 

Jerry C

Jerry
Senior User
I worked for Weyerhaeuser for many years and I think your numbers about pine harvest age and trees per acre are about right for planting. By harvest the trees per acre is reduced significantly by thinning. North Carolina is a big producer of SYP lumber....makes you wonder why there would ever be a shortage here. The three Weyerhaeuser lumber mills in Eastern NC are permitted to produce over 400 million board feet of lumber a year.....When you add up all the other lumber mills in NC the total lumber produced is staggering.....The forestry industry does an amazing job growing timber to sustain all the wood products industry.....In general forests are sustainable except where they are being cut for urban growth.
 

CrealBilly

Jeff
Senior User
I worked for Weyerhaeuser for many years and I think your numbers about pine harvest age and trees per acre are about right for planting. By harvest the trees per acre is reduced significantly by thinning. North Carolina is a big producer of SYP lumber....makes you wonder why there would ever be a shortage here. The three Weyerhaeuser lumber mills in Eastern NC are permitted to produce over 400 million board feet of lumber a year.....When you add up all the other lumber mills in NC the total lumber produced is staggering.....The forestry industry does an amazing job growing timber to sustain all the wood products industry.....In general forests are sustainable except where they are being cut for urban growth.
It's import to maintain a substantial forestry program. For the life of me I simply don't understand why a 2x4-8 (SPF) is nearly $5.00, that astounds my rational thinking. Knowing the little bit I know from running a tiny sawmill business. The SYP that is so abundant in the SE is far superior to the SPF junk at the home improvement BORGs. Why the Mills aren't producing un-treated framing lumber from SYP is a mystery to me. Even a bigger mystery is, the price being paid per BF of marketable standing SYP, I just don't get it.
 

junquecol

Bruce
User
The mills are churning out framing lumber, most of which is pressure treated and shipped all over the country. SYP is superior for floor joists, and the wood of choice truss building. OSB, and sheating plywood are SYP. Modular home business is almost exclusively SYP. Plus a bunch is used for form work. I know back when I was building commercial buildings, often I would order a bundle (505 pieces) of 14 foot SYP 2 X 4's for form work. We ordered the fourteens because they were 25% cheaper than sixteens.
 

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
Another factor in this is the loss of hundreds of square miles (not acres) of pine trees when Hurricane Michael blew through the Florida panhandle. Estimated recovery time for the silviculture industry there is 25 years.
 

Sourwould

Taylor
Senior User
Another factor in this is the loss of hundreds of square miles (not acres) of pine trees when Hurricane Michael blew through the Florida panhandle. Estimated recovery time for the silviculture industry there is 25 years.
And fires out west, I would think.
 

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