Resources - bath remodel?

Henry W

HenryW
Senior User
So we are considering two bath remodels - one that changes the footprint considerably (in the master, which is currently 8x5' - yep, 40 SF!), and the other bath that would have a minor change in SF by 'stealing' a closet. We are at the stage of trying to decide what layout/design might work - not yet at the "which tile?" decision point. I am generally aware of the codes for clearances around fixtures etc.

I am wondering if anyone could recommend any particular resources that they have found helpful. Web pictures and websites are often so focused on materials choices - not really layout.

Thanks
 
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Oka

Casey
Corporate Member
Henry, Pinterest is pretty good for general images. In general, get a clear Idea what motif you are leaning to, then establish how the fixtures will add or not be part of the color scheme. Then look over the styles that ya'll like then go from there. I personally like fairly simple things, but with bathrooms sky's the limit.

Also, if you have a plumber install the fixtures, etc, be advised the higher end brands often take longer in that many of them have pre-assembly required on the fixtures

Bath fixtures
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
I have the 2014 version of this software: Home Designer Suite | Home Designer. It is currently $99. I used it to plan two extensive renovations of my house. The second one included the creation of a half bath and moving the master bath. It would help you and isn't tough to use but $100 might be a bit much for one bath remodel. It has a library of fixtures and cabinets which makes it easy to try thing. Also has furniture and appliance libraries.

By education I am an engineer. I can "get" a design from a floorplan but not everybody can. Some programs will give you a 3D rendering. If you need, or want, that it might mean more software cost. But however you do it, a good plan will help you save considerably more money if you have to make changes after you start.
 

Henry W

HenryW
Senior User
... I can "get" a design from a floorplan but not everybody can. ....
Thanks Jim. I have no problem visualizing from a floor plan, although my few attempts at talking with some design people and retail sales people were complete failures - because they went straight to fixtures, when I wanted to arrange them in a suitable layout before I decided which specific models/fixtures I wanted. (I don't expect retail folks to design a layout for me). I even tried a budget designer, but she ignored my list of wants (separate shower in new master suite). That made the design easy and she did not have any creative ideas beyond what I provided her. Very disappointed in that experience, but I have just accepted that (begrudgingly).

Does this design software go into plumbing and electrical design, or just physical layout?

As I noted, our Master suite is 40 SF (that is the room area, not the open SF): a tub/shower combo opposite a toilet and sink. Works fine for one, but its good thing my wife and I get along because there is no avoiding each other when we are both in there. Plan is to use the space from a small office next door to increase space for master bath, the master closet, and add a compact washer/dryer (makes this house complete single floor livable). So layout and design is our big issue (now).
 

tri4sale

Daniel
Corporate Member
Go to local new construction homes and check out the masters there. Best way to visualize many different layouts.
 

Henry W

HenryW
Senior User
Yes Fred, that is exactly what we are planning to incorporate - space and infrastructure for a COMPACT stacked set.
We already have working laundry downstairs, but want to plan for 'main floor only living.'
 

Henry W

HenryW
Senior User
Thanks Jeff. I have searched some, but guess that I tend to use the same search terms and end up seeing the same resources each time. I had not seen that blog post you showed at top. Appreciate it.

Of course these are ideas generators, because none fit the exact particulars of our master bath wants: separate tub and shower, toilet, sinks, and perhaps a compact washer dryer (uncertain of exact location of laundry).

The other bath is a much more typical full bath in a compact space design, one that we are reasonably certain of our options. This other one fits pretty neatly into the design/layout ideas shown commonly. The master is the one we are looking for ideas on.
 
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Jeff

New User
Jeff
As I noted, our Master suite is 40 SF (that is the room area, not the open SF): a tub/shower combo opposite a toilet and sink. Works fine for one, but its good thing my wife and I get along because there is no avoiding each other when we are both in there. Plan is to use the space from a small office next door to increase space for master bath, the master closet, and add a compact washer/dryer (makes this house complete single floor livable). So layout and design is our big issue (now).
You could draw the specific layout on graph paper or in SketchUp and then put paper cutouts with the dimensions for each of the fixtures (tub/shower combo, toilet, sink(s), and stackable washer/dryer unit) overlayed on that footprint.

Changing the existing plumbing/eletrical locations for a new layout will quickly get expensive.
 

Henry W

HenryW
Senior User
Yes exactly Jeff. Graph paper has been the process so far, and there are dozens of sketches.

Getting closer to the answer all the time, but always open to ideas. Wanting to make this as accessible as possible - having seen my Mom try to operate a walker with our NARROW 24" BR doors, made me realize the limitation of our humble abode.

Given the almost total redo scale of what we are doing, the preference is to makes this 'universally accessible". Pretty much have that with current iteration of the sletch, but getting a wide enough door is the final challenge I think.

"Changing the existing plumbing/electrical locations for a new layout will quickly get expensive. "
That's the biggest reason the current tooilet location is a 'fixture' in new layouts. Other drain lines are much smaller and easier to relocate - and aside from the toilet everything else will need to be relocated.
 

SteveHall

Steve
Corporate Member
I am wondering if anyone could recommend any particular resources that they have found helpful.
Have you tried SketchUp? It's pretty much the ultimate tool for building everything in 3D. You can get really detailed modeling the existing/demo/new if you want, down to studs, drywall, and paint. It sounds like you have a tough situation where being that detailed might help. I still have hope to host an informal SketchUp workshop for NCWW because I think it is the ideal tool for anyone trying to make or build in 3D. (Short of a purpose-built professional BIM/CAM modeler.)
 

Henry W

HenryW
Senior User
Thanks Steve.
SketchUp is on my list of 'to-learn' but more for furniture design than for this. My few attempts to learn have been half-hearted and without much diligence. I can easily envision things, and typically design by eye... but that doesn't communicate to potential clients very well.
I NEED to learn SketchUp... and maybe this ought to be the driver to doing so. But I so often want to get on with building that drawing detailed sketches doesn't happen often. I do occasionally build furniture models that help getting details right.
 

SteveHall

Steve
Corporate Member
I can easily envision things, and typically design by eye... but that doesn't communicate to potential clients very well.
Agreed, that's often why I migrate to SketchUp after sketching and drafting the initial design concept.

Ages ago, SktchUp tutorials were simple and explained the major tools quickly. The interface has become cluttered as first Google, then Trimble, added features. But if you learn about 8 tools and their keyboard shortcuts (rectangle, circle, push-pull, line, move, rotate, erase, component), most everything else just improves appearances.
 

Henry W

HenryW
Senior User
Post a picture of your 5' x 8' master bath from a few angles. We have 3' wide door openings in our bathrooms which are all on one floor.
It's a 60's era bathroom, with a tub/shower combo on the left side (5' long), and the right side with a toilet and vanity (also 5'). Door enters the middle of one 8' side, and window on opposite wall.
Compact and efficient; our biggest issue is that it doesn't work for two people (simultaneously). We want more room - door is 24".
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
Henry,

Home Designer lets you place the electrical switches and outlets but does not design the run or the plumbing. I would not worry about electrical, it is small and relatively easy to run. Take the drywall off the walls and you can do nearly anything electrical.

One issue with the plumbing is access. I had a crawl space for them to use and I got reconfigured - rough in - in a day of a plumbers time with a helper (who happened to be a police officer earning some extra money). I had HVAC ducts in the way too. But if your house in on a slab, it is much worse. But I did that myself in a different house. But it means getting a jack hammer and removing the floor, then moving the plumbing, then pouring new concrete. Definitely not a one day issue. I let the plumber put in a different sort of vent so he did not have to go out the roof - it works.

From the description of your space I wonder if you are not trying to get too much into too little a space. My son and daughter in laws house is nice but their MBR has both a shower and tub but the shower is so small they'd rather not have the tub if they could trade the space for a larger shower. How big is big enough for the shower is something I would really work on. Like try to find a show room with showers you can stand in to see the space. If you have another bathroom with a tub, is it possible you could just want a fairly nice shower, toilet, and double vanity? My MBR is not large but it has 80 square feet and I could not figure out a way to fit in both a tub and shower that we thought was useable. So I have a tub shower and a 6 foot double vanity. It is the only tub in the house. I'd rather have that tub in one of the other bathrooms but they are really tiny and don't have the space. If one of them had a tub I would just have a shower. My tub shower also bows out in the middle - the tub does, not just the shower rod. It makes it seem a lot better to me than a normal tub shower - the extra ~6 inches really helps. The plumber moved the drain for the toilet away a few inches (maybe 2 or 3) when he saw the tub and that was a good idea.

My laundry was just a closet under the stairs in this house when I bought it. I like my laundry room a lot better but it uses less space to just have the washer/dryer in a closet off the hallway with bifold doors in front. The hallway gets used for staging on laundry day but it worked for us for several years.

We gained 25 square feet for a powder room mostly by straightening out a hallway. Turns waste significant space.

Kind of a random ramble. Hopefully something useful in there.
 

Henry W

HenryW
Senior User
Thanks Jim. Good ideas - I had no difficulty following your ramble.

We are trying to get a lot in there, but we are going to 'steal' (that is 'use' and therfore lose) space from a neighboring 7x12 office (that will be consumed by this addition) We plan to add to both the master closet, and to the master bath. We'll end up with about 100-110 SF in this Master bath (if it works the way I hope); that bath will have the fixtures noted above, and I hope include access to a closet with for a compact/stacked washer/dryer.

Some of this is just our preferences - and we the hope the next owner likes it too.
- She likes a tub, so it's not hard to figure why a tub in the plans (won't be huge or super $$$, but it will be a tub).
- We agree that a curb-less (no step) shower is a good thing; we have tried these in various places and see that in the long term this is a very good feature.
- The main floor laundry is not something we would 'populate' right away, but planning longer term we see the advantages - so installing that infrastructure while we are doing plumbing and have the walls open seems like a good idea.
House is above partial basement / partial crawlspace, so access to beneath areas is pretty good.
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
Henry,

Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense. I would make some sketches of what you want and not worry too much about plumbing or other issues. The way to get that information is to start talking to contractors. They will point out issues and most will offer suggestions that may be useful. I am assuming you will use a contractor. Where I live, it is actually somewhat useful to hire subs yourself. If you do that you don't need a permit. If you hire a general, they have to get a permit (and your tax bill will go up). A framing sub will not give you good input on plumbing, usually. I've done it both ways. When I hired a general he could generate construction drawings but decided what I gave him (from the software I mentioned) was good enough. Both times I did the finish (electrical, plumbing, HVAC, painting, and finish flooring). The contractor was done when I had finished drywall. That saved money and also reduced the time I was at he mercy of subs (showing up was the big deal).
 

Henry W

HenryW
Senior User
Thanks Jim.
Open question about who to hire and for which tasks. I have handyman skills, although I have not done tile work. Framing, drywall, cabinets, doors and windows are all in my within my skillset. So I will likely re-do the small one first and test my skills and timeframe (takes longer when I am only one working on it). Will need plumbing and electrical work, but not likely HVAC. We had a guy redo our litchen a few years ago, and really liked him; he worked to tight timelines and did not really need subs (we did not change configurations so very little electrical or plumbing needs). We will ask for a price from him at least.
 

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