Replacing carpet with hardwood flooring
- Thread starter Bill_L
- Start date
So much good info has already been stated. I’ll add a vendor that I have worked with that has provided quality product. Reasonable price, good communication and easy shipping: Buy Hardwood Flooring Online | Hardwoods4less
As a reference, the National Wood Flooring Association (NWFA) provides guidelines for installations of various wood flooring: https://pacifichardwood.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/NWFAInstallGuide2019.pdf
As a reference, the National Wood Flooring Association (NWFA) provides guidelines for installations of various wood flooring: https://pacifichardwood.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/NWFAInstallGuide2019.pdf
The wood arrived today and I'm in the process of moving the 75 boxes upstairs. I think it's going to acclimate for a good 3 weeks. I'll need that much time to recover from moving the boxes (though I am getting some help from Lincoln and my son). @redknife - I did try to get through hardwoods4less. They sent samples but just couldn't come close to the existing floor. Ended up getting Bruce from HD. I'm a bit wary - haven't opened any boxes to see the lengths. I'm hopeful...
Turns out all the floor joists don't run the same direction. The plywood switches directions around the 3rd door on the left. So the playroom (far end) and the majority of the last bedroom on the left will have floor joists that run north / south. The rest of the upstairs, the joists are east / west. My garage is under the playroom and part of that bedroom. The last room on the right before the playroom is a tiled laundry room so no flooring required there. Not sure if I rip up some of the plywood and see if I can add some braces so that all the hallway flooring can run the same direction. I'm not worried about the bedroom. I'd run the flooring the correct way and there about 1 foot that would be incorrect plus a closet. The advice is probably going to be 'Get a professional!'.
My best advice is: Don’t let this floor ruin a friendship. Saving a few bucks by doing this with a friend isn’t worth it. Be prepared, it’s not going to be perfect. Get OK with that. I have done things with friends. My home isn’t perfect, my friends are still my friends.
I will never (ever) install floors again 
but if I did I would use a laser establish a straight line and periodically check. But most flooring is so exact it's not an issue. Engineered flooring is kinda fool proof. Last time I did any, I laid down an entire row and just moved it to where is needed to be. The joints were so tight the whole line of flooring moved as one unit.
Definitely staples. I've stapled flooring down and one mistake I made was not spacing them close enough. I really think you need to go every 8" or so. Re: glue you should check with the manufacturer. If it were me, unless they specifically say do NOT use glue, I would glue it down. If you do not want to glue, I would look at barrier material made specifically for flooring rather than rosin paper. We had a bamboo floor installed and they glued and stapled it down. In spite of that, there are a couple places that creak when you step on it. One thing I do remember - clean any glue residue off immediately!!
Here's an interesting note: the floors in the old part of our house are heart pine. The subfloor is 1x6 @ 45° nailed (not screwed) to the joists, tar paper on top of that, heart pine nailed with cut nails. 60 years later there's never been a creak anywhere, except in the new part where we used glue. Honestly I'm not exaggerating. Go figure......
but if I did I would use a laser establish a straight line and periodically check. But most flooring is so exact it's not an issue. Engineered flooring is kinda fool proof. Last time I did any, I laid down an entire row and just moved it to where is needed to be. The joints were so tight the whole line of flooring moved as one unit.Definitely staples. I've stapled flooring down and one mistake I made was not spacing them close enough. I really think you need to go every 8" or so. Re: glue you should check with the manufacturer. If it were me, unless they specifically say do NOT use glue, I would glue it down. If you do not want to glue, I would look at barrier material made specifically for flooring rather than rosin paper. We had a bamboo floor installed and they glued and stapled it down. In spite of that, there are a couple places that creak when you step on it. One thing I do remember - clean any glue residue off immediately!!
Here's an interesting note: the floors in the old part of our house are heart pine. The subfloor is 1x6 @ 45° nailed (not screwed) to the joists, tar paper on top of that, heart pine nailed with cut nails. 60 years later there's never been a creak anywhere, except in the new part where we used glue. Honestly I'm not exaggerating. Go figure......
Why are you worried about floor joists?. You are nailing (or stapling) to 3/4" T&G plywood. No glue required either, put down resin paper and go for it. I would space my fasteners about 8" as someone else mentioned here as well.
It's the second floor. Moisture shouldn't be an issue. I would forgo the moisture membrane, glue it, and staple it where the flooring will be parallel to joists. I would be afraid without glue the subfloor and flooring would flex at different rates between the joists and create squeaks.
Resin paper or the comfort foam will deaden a lot of noise to the floor below, and use cleats, not nails or staples. You will save yourself a lot of creaks and squeaks 10 years down the road. Hardwood flooring and plywood subflooring absorb humidity at different rates and the subfloor and the finish flooring have different exposure to humidity so gluing them together is not a recommended practice.
This ^. If this is solid wood flooring you will likely regret not glueing it.
If you don’t have an oscillating saw, now is the time to buy one. A scrap of flooring as a gauge and nice clean cuts on the door jambs and trim.
Can’t advise Bruce flooring. Got prefinished “oak” & put it down in my living room. Total crap. Looks like it was milled in China or somewhere that does not care about quality. Color does not come close to what we have down. Got it at HD in Apex & showed them samples. The manager could care less. I told him Bruce warranty says go back to where purchased. His response? “Bruce does not tell us how to operate.” Went directly to Bruce & still trying to get warranty re-imbursement. Been trying to jump through all the hoops for 3 months. I will have to pull up all I have put down & re-install. I got all my shoe mould & transition wood from American Products (Lease lane, Raleigh) & was happy with quality. Saw lots of pros buying flooring by the truck load. I think they have pre- & unfinished flooring & real red oak.
Everything I've read says the floor should run perpendicular to the joists. I'm guessing it's less chance of squeaking / flexing as the pieces are more likely to be supported by a joist rather than in between them.
Wouldn't it be odd to have the floor running opposite directions? I'd need to create some kind of transition at the door at the end of the hallway, even though the joists run different directions for a portion of the hallway. I'd want to run the flooring in the hallway one direction.
Ugh. Hopeful that I have better luck. I've had the boards acclimating for a few months now.
I've installed a little Bruce oak pre-finished in my house and as a table top for my church. It was fine. I'm sure they supply lower quality pieces sometimes but my boxes were good. Essentially all pieces were usable. Realistically that is the risk. I can't imagine a box that is all unusable, but a few pieces is possible. If you are worried, buy an extra box or two and take back what you don't use - that is a good thing about the big box stores. I've also put down >600 bd ft of pre-finished Hickory, I do not remember the brand. That also was fine. I've also taken up old oak. From that experience I am confident that staples hold much better than cleat nails. But either would work. But the staples are cheaper and easier to find - which may be an indication what "professionals" use.
Glueing flooring down is not for solid wood, it is for engineered floors. I've done those too. Staples over rosin paper is what I recommend.
Forget about the joist direction. When you go perpendicular the boards span several joists and it can help transfer load and make the floor a little more solid. But unless you have deflection issues now you won't with the hardwood down. When you can go across joists, it is a little bit better but both ways work.
I bought a flooring nailer/stapler from Harbor Freight. I've since loaned it out. It leaks a little now but still works. It's cheaper to buy your own than renting a nailer unless you can do it all in a short period of time. The flooring nailer will not work much in the hallway, however. You have to have room to swing the hammer and hit the trigger for the nailer. Several boards on both sides of the hall will have to be fastened with a finish nailer. A 16 gauge will work, a 18 gauge is too light in my opinion and a 15 gauge is best (again in my opinion). Again, HF is a good inexpensive source. The 16 gauge will be significantly cheaper than the 15 and will still work fine. You have to face nail against the wall and can then switch to nailing through the tongue.
Take extra time to get the first row straight, I recommend chalking a line. Your walls are probably not straight. Don't install tight to the wall, leave a 1/4 inch gap. It will be covered by shoe. That molding also helps to disguise things a bit. I would measure across the hall to know if the walls are parallel. Again, they probably are not. I'd figure out a plan before I started nailing. How many rows will it be and how much do you have to cut the last row. If it's a lot, you might want to rip the first row some so it looks more symetrical. This could result in significant flooring loss, however.
Most pieces were straight enough I could just bang them in but if you don't want to throw away flooring be prepared to pry some into position. I liked driving a large straight blade screwdriver into the sub floor to pry with. Crude but quick and effective. Especially in the middle of a room, it's hard to find something to pry against but this will work.
Glueing flooring down is not for solid wood, it is for engineered floors. I've done those too. Staples over rosin paper is what I recommend.
Forget about the joist direction. When you go perpendicular the boards span several joists and it can help transfer load and make the floor a little more solid. But unless you have deflection issues now you won't with the hardwood down. When you can go across joists, it is a little bit better but both ways work.
I bought a flooring nailer/stapler from Harbor Freight. I've since loaned it out. It leaks a little now but still works. It's cheaper to buy your own than renting a nailer unless you can do it all in a short period of time. The flooring nailer will not work much in the hallway, however. You have to have room to swing the hammer and hit the trigger for the nailer. Several boards on both sides of the hall will have to be fastened with a finish nailer. A 16 gauge will work, a 18 gauge is too light in my opinion and a 15 gauge is best (again in my opinion). Again, HF is a good inexpensive source. The 16 gauge will be significantly cheaper than the 15 and will still work fine. You have to face nail against the wall and can then switch to nailing through the tongue.
Take extra time to get the first row straight, I recommend chalking a line. Your walls are probably not straight. Don't install tight to the wall, leave a 1/4 inch gap. It will be covered by shoe. That molding also helps to disguise things a bit. I would measure across the hall to know if the walls are parallel. Again, they probably are not. I'd figure out a plan before I started nailing. How many rows will it be and how much do you have to cut the last row. If it's a lot, you might want to rip the first row some so it looks more symetrical. This could result in significant flooring loss, however.
Most pieces were straight enough I could just bang them in but if you don't want to throw away flooring be prepared to pry some into position. I liked driving a large straight blade screwdriver into the sub floor to pry with. Crude but quick and effective. Especially in the middle of a room, it's hard to find something to pry against but this will work.
Hi Bill,
The flooring will acclimate better/faster out of the box, but I'm not sure you have the room to lay it all in a single layer.
I found that laying the boards out before even thinking of nailing one down is one key to success (the other was my wife choosing what boards went where!).
You will find a board or two that slipped through QC and is bent beyond saving. Toss it and don't waste time. If there are boards that look green (yes, white oak occasionally does that), I'd toss them aside as well. When you're all done, you will end up with a few bits of prefinished scrap for the shop.
Take the time to walk over the subfloor, and find ALL the squeaks. Screw the subfloor down with construction screws (save the drywall screws for drywall).
Check for an uneven subfloor and fix it before you start. I missed one "tiny" area and can still find it in the dark (with my eyes closed). Grrrrr!
If you are doing a spline joint, glue the spline in on one board and let the glue cure. THEN you can nail through the glued spline providing a good anchor for the reverse run of flooring. Make sure you test fit the flooring and your spline before committing to nailing.
If you end up face nailing the last row of boards in an area where you can't hide things with the trim, fill the nail holes (pin nails would be a good choice btw) with some wood putty and then cap the (lightly) sanded putty with a matching oil-based poly. This keeps all moisture away from the nails, and won't show up later as rusty holes shining through the water-based poly.
Yes, experience talking here, but overall, the floor looks great 12 years later.
Have fun, and enjoy the process.
Regards,
Rick
The flooring will acclimate better/faster out of the box, but I'm not sure you have the room to lay it all in a single layer.
I found that laying the boards out before even thinking of nailing one down is one key to success (the other was my wife choosing what boards went where!).
You will find a board or two that slipped through QC and is bent beyond saving. Toss it and don't waste time. If there are boards that look green (yes, white oak occasionally does that), I'd toss them aside as well. When you're all done, you will end up with a few bits of prefinished scrap for the shop.
Take the time to walk over the subfloor, and find ALL the squeaks. Screw the subfloor down with construction screws (save the drywall screws for drywall).
Check for an uneven subfloor and fix it before you start. I missed one "tiny" area and can still find it in the dark (with my eyes closed). Grrrrr!
If you are doing a spline joint, glue the spline in on one board and let the glue cure. THEN you can nail through the glued spline providing a good anchor for the reverse run of flooring. Make sure you test fit the flooring and your spline before committing to nailing.
If you end up face nailing the last row of boards in an area where you can't hide things with the trim, fill the nail holes (pin nails would be a good choice btw) with some wood putty and then cap the (lightly) sanded putty with a matching oil-based poly. This keeps all moisture away from the nails, and won't show up later as rusty holes shining through the water-based poly.
Yes, experience talking here, but overall, the floor looks great 12 years later.
Have fun, and enjoy the process.
Regards,
Rick
I wanted to follow up on my Bruce flooring post. It has been 6 months of dealing with Bruce and HD (Apex) so I am at the end and in fairness thought I should post results of my negotiations. When I made a warranty claim to Bruce all I wanted was my money back for a clearly unacceptable product. I told Bruce several times they could come look at the flooring if they wanted as no one could claim the flooring was acceptable. Bruce asked for the lot number of my flooring and after giving it to them they fairly quickly agreed to a refund. When I commented that the cost of the flooring was perhaps 30% of what it would cost to tear out what I had down and re-install they asked for a written estimate. I supplied and they agreed to pay me for the extra expense in addition to the refund. To say I was surprised is an understatement. Not sure if they are looking out for customers or thinking class action as I know I cannot be the only person affected. All this discussion and negotiation was through HD which foot dragged the whole way. Repeatedly when I needed a response from HD I would wait 2 weeks, prod them, and in a few days get a response. Bruce would only work through HD so it slowed the whole process. Never used HD much anyway but this has soured me.
After spending so much time looking at Bruce products it appears they have a line they sell to pro outlets and a lesser brand they sell to HD/Lowes. After considerable searching I found Bruce flooring I thought was what I needed but HD/Lowes could not order it. They did not have access to this line of flooring. The flooring we have is the most common size, species, and color used so the difficulty of getting what we wanted surprised me.
I have 3 rooms of Bruce flooring we put down ~10 yrs ago that has held up fine. Something changed along the line. The only reason I went back to Bruce was thinking I would get the best match. After visiting several flooring stores I found to LL Flooring has the best match (we brought a whole case home and laid it out) and happy with their service.
So that was my experience. Just need to find someone to help me tear it out. Laid plenty of flooring but never taken one out. We cope cut all the shoe molding (lots of it to do- not many straight runs) and it looks great. I will take up every piece, label it, and try to use it with the new flooring.
After spending so much time looking at Bruce products it appears they have a line they sell to pro outlets and a lesser brand they sell to HD/Lowes. After considerable searching I found Bruce flooring I thought was what I needed but HD/Lowes could not order it. They did not have access to this line of flooring. The flooring we have is the most common size, species, and color used so the difficulty of getting what we wanted surprised me.
I have 3 rooms of Bruce flooring we put down ~10 yrs ago that has held up fine. Something changed along the line. The only reason I went back to Bruce was thinking I would get the best match. After visiting several flooring stores I found to LL Flooring has the best match (we brought a whole case home and laid it out) and happy with their service.
So that was my experience. Just need to find someone to help me tear it out. Laid plenty of flooring but never taken one out. We cope cut all the shoe molding (lots of it to do- not many straight runs) and it looks great. I will take up every piece, label it, and try to use it with the new flooring.
Premier Sponsor
Our Sponsors
LATEST FOR SALE LISTINGS
-
SOLD -- $75: Gast moa v113 Vacuum Pump Veneer, 60" bag and board- Started by peterdnight
- Replies: 1
-
GONE: Gladiator 5 cleats, 10 hangers, Paper Towel and Shelf
- Started by peterdnight
- Replies: 3
-
SOLD -- $100 Makita mac700 portable air + grex pin nailer + 2 others + 50' hose
- Started by peterdnight
- Replies: 1
-
-
