Replacing carpet with hardwood flooring

[Bill_L]

Hi,
I'm considering replacing the upstairs carpeting with hardwood flooring similar to what I have downstairs (2 1/4" red oak - 3/4"). I'm hiring a friend that feels confident he can do this. He's somewhat of a handyman but has concerns about doing the work to my satisfaction. It's about 1,500 square feet and there is a 40'-50' run (master bedroom - hallway - playroom) where the boards would run the entire length. If you're off a fraction in that initial board - it will be noticeable by the time you get to the other end. There are doors between the bedroom/playroom that I though could have a transition area. A piece of oak that runs at a right angle to the floor boards. That would allow for a 'reset' if the angles were off. Start at the far end of the house and work back. I'm in no rush and would be fine with plywood floors until the job was done (or I could pull the carpet as each part of the project moves forward).

Also, has anyone purchased Bruce flooring from the big box stores? I'm concerned about getting a lot of smaller pieces vs. longer pieces that would be cut to size.

Any other comments about installing hardwood floors? I do know that I'd get the flooring a few weeks in advance and let it sit in the house to acclimate. I'd also make sure to choose boards from different boxes as the floor was being laid.

Thanks!

 

[waitup]

The friend having concerns about doing it to your satisfaction would concern me a little. You are talking about $5k-6k worth of wood at a minimum and it would probably be destroyed if it has to come up. Is it prefinished or field finished? Field finished has a little more room for installation errors as the finishing can hide some issues. Are you doing glue down or nail down installation? I would think nail down would be more forgiving of someone not being as experienced as the nail gun will help drive the boards tight and you don't have to worry about getting glue on a prefinished surface.

As far as the long run, the boards will have enough play in them that you would just follow the wall and that should work out fine. hopefully the two sides of the hall and the playroom that are parallel to the wood direction are mostly parallel. I would not do the transitions for cosmetic reasons and the fact that they will squeak if not done just right. You would just start on the longest wall and go from there.

I haven't purchased Bruce from the big box, but used to work as a superintendent for builders and oversaw the installation of thousands of square feet of Bruce. It typically comes in random lengths with a tongue and groove on each end. The only pieces you cut are the ends at the walls to finish a run. Typically can use cutoff for start of next run so have very little waste.

You are spot on with acclimating the wood and mixing boxes if possible. I would say make sure you spread the wood out to acclimate. Too many people stack it all in one big pile and it takes forever for the wood in the center to acclimate.

 

[Roy G]

Bill, if you get the Bruce flooring, note that the edges are slightly beveled so you end up with a very small v-groove between adjacent pieces. You try to use the small pieces in closets. I used the Bruce product and found it was good with very few pieces that were bowed. Getting edges to be tight needs some sort of pry bar at times. Your friend will have a very good grip after he does 1500 sq. ft. of flooring.

Roy G

 

[Bill_L]

Is it prefinished or field finished? Field finished has a little more room for installation errors as the finishing can hide some issues. Are you doing glue down or nail down installation?

Field finished and nail down.

Longest wall is the hallway wall - so may not be able to go 'room by room'. But getting it straight in the hallway and into the rooms is key. Appreciate your point on the transition. I was sold on that as a simple solution to a problem I created. Get the line straight and it's not a problem ;-).

 

[Dee2]

My $0.02.

I've put down some LL flooring in the past and found hardwood floor options with ~5-6mm solid top layers for the current house. More expensive than big box stores, in my experience and higher quality, IMHO.

If straightness was your prime criteria, I'd make sure the walls are at least parallel. FWIW, I was able to run straight down a ~15' hall, through a bedroom doorway set at ~45 degrees and into a bedroom ~25' long. Used the laser and a couple of long pieces of plywood aligned with an 8' structural aluminum to form an extended straight edge. I was fortunate that it only took 2 tries but a lot of thought and measuring for the first run. Off the first piece through the doorway, I built out the flooring in two directions. Part of the bedroom was an addition sometime in the past and provided a nice crook on both sides of the room.

If you buy from the big box, I've been told that you'll want all the cartons to come from the same lot.

 

[waitup]

With field finished, I'll add that you would like to acclimate the wood for a bit before it goes down then give it a couple more weeks after install before finishing if possible. Unfinished hardwood is a commodity as well, and you may be able to get the same product from a dedicated flooring supplier for less $$$.

 

[JimD]

The only Bruce I've put down was thin stuff, under 1/2 inch, I put in an ex's house she was selling. It takes a different stapler than 3/4 but the flooring was fine. I put around 1000 square feet in my current house, don't remember the brand but I don't think it was Bruce. It is Hickory. It was prefinished. I put it down with cleat nails but if I was doing it again I'd use staples. They are cheaper and they hold better. I had to take up a bunch of flooring that was stapled down later during a different remodel and the stapled oak was all busted up by the time I got it up. The flooring put down with cleats came up much easier.

I agree with the strategy others have suggested of starting with the long hallway so you can get it straight. I'd use a chalk line to see if the walls are straight. Don't be surprised if they are not. You cannot use a flooring nailer up against the wall. You have to put a row or two, maybe three, down with a finish nailer. The first row has to be face nailed. After that you should be able to angle the nails into the tongue. So I would snap a straight line near a wall in the hallway and running the entire length and then face nail that first row along that line. You need to allow at least 1/4 inch for expansion (space the boards away from walls that much). That can help with minor irregularities. That gap is covered by the shoe molding. Hallways are a bit of a pain in general because the walls are in the way. So it is not a bad thing to get them out of the way early. If the hallway is really bad you might have to cut that first row where it goes against the wall. Unless you have to cut off a lot I don't think it will be noticable. You should probably check both walls to eliminate a surprise when you get to the second wall.

Flooring that is sanded and then finished in place is nicer than the prefinished IMHO. I used the prefinished upstairs in an area that is not used unless we have guests. It's fine for that application but picks up dust in the grooves.

 

[Bill_L]

Oops. The wood will be PREFINISHED. I agree that sanding / finishing in place is nicer. I think the price difference was about $1.25 per bf. Then to pay someone else to finish 1,500 sq. feet. I didn't think there would be a savings going that route. I imagine I'd need to be out of the house for a few days due to the odor (we had floors refinished in our last house about 20 years ago and there was a strong smell for more than a few days). And we have pets that are indoor only.

I found this video on hardwood flooring really helpful.

 

[zdorsch]

Agreed with running the hallway first and then finish the other rooms. And definitely use a chalk line to begin with a straight line. I like to use finish screws for the first course, but nails work fine too.

I’ve seen splines used to flip the boards if starting from the middle of a room. I’m not sure if this is acceptable but it would certainly make it easier running into the master from the hallway.

A oscillating multi tool is very useful for trimming door trim and the odd corner that needs removed from the flooring at times.

 

[Craptastic]

I installed over 1900 ft2 of Bella Brazilian Cherry flooring in the current house. This is the 6th place I have done wood flooring now, since I hate carpet. If you need an extra nailer to use PM me. I also have a floorboard jack for getting the edge boards seated on the tongue properly. I highly suggest the use of one. BTW use cleats, not nails.

You do not rely on the nailer to pull in the flooring very much. If you do then your lines are getting out of whack and that needs to be addressed before moving on further. You definitely should acclimate the wood to the house environment for at least 2 weeks. It's a PITA to get around and all but it will make the install go much better and the end product that much nicer. A 50' run would concern me if you have never done this before. You will want a very long straightedge that can span 15 or 16' at a time to stay steady straight for runs that long, so plan ahead. It can be done without one (read - laser) but with little experience you would be better off having the straightedge.

Cutting and removing carpet and padding can be a messy dusty gross job. Wear a mask. I have found the best way to remove it is to cut it into 3' wide strips (first all the carpet, then the pad), roll those strips up and use some painters tape to hold the roll together so you can haul it off. After that's all gone get yourself a short mechanics rolling stool and use a sharpened screwdriver and good pliers to pull the staples, and a flatbar to pop the tackstrips free. A good flashlight can help you make sure you got all the staples out.


Good luck!

 

[Dee2]

Agreed with running the hallway first and then finish the other rooms. And definitely use a chalk line to begin with a straight line. I like to use finish screws for the first course, but nails work fine too.

I’ve seen splines used to flip the boards if starting from the middle of a room. I’m not sure if this is acceptable but it would certainly make it easier running into the master from the hallway.

A oscillating multi tool is very useful for trimming door trim and the odd corner that needs removed from the flooring at times.

Used splines in my floor multiple times. Got tired of the price and made my own.

And if it hasn't been mentioned, add screws to the sub-floor. Many times.

OBTW, the straight edge is nailed or screwed to the sub-floor. Using screws makes it simpler to move IMHO.

 

[bphaynes]

When we bought our house last year I ripped up all the 35 year old carpet and padding and some of the particle board subfloor as well because some pets had messed it up. It was nasty. Being into woodworking, I wanted to put in real white oak flooring. I went with the lowest bid, which was with a GC who had done work for my grandparents and parents (tens of thousands of dollars over multiple years). He, of course, subbed it out to his hardwood guy who then almost burned my house down. See this post https://ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?threads/house-fire.75783/. After the insurance claim and everything got put back together for the most part, I'm still not happy with the flooring job. Most of it is because I'm a woodworker and detail oriented and most people can't tell, but they also don't live on it everyday. Bottom line is that I would not go with the cheapest quote again and instead would pay more and feel comfortable and have a better result. With our first winter on these floors we've had several cracks emerge and several seams now have ridges you can feel with your hand or foot. I suspect they did not sand enough with the drum sander and probably did not let the wood acclimate enough. There are also still some nails they didn't set properly. They tried to get away with only putting one coat of poly under the fridge, but I didn't let them. Most of this doesn't apply if you're doing pre finished, but I'm still so mad about it. Still I'm glad we went with hardwoods because they're beautiful, natural (other than the poly) and will last for years to come.

 

[Craptastic]

Used splines in my floor multiple times. Got tired of the price and made my own.

And if it hasn't been mentioned, add screws to the sub-floor. Many times.

OBTW, the straight edge is nailed or screwed to the sub-floor. Using screws makes it simpler to move IMHO.

Unless you really know what you are doing do not transition T&G in the middle of a floor.

I've done it once and that was matching a previous installation for an entrance extending into a living room. Middle of the room? Between room? Consider that high traffic and needing extra fasteners. Doing a transition with a spline (if not done correctly) leaves you with a section that won't have proper fastening.

Not suggested for a first time installer at all.

 

[chris_goris]

If youre concerned about his abilities, hire it out to a professional. If you have a long hall way, that will be the starting point as others have eluded to here as well. There are many methods to do this from using a chalkline to a guide screwed to the floor as the starting line baseline. Adding splines to flip direction is very common as well, but glue it in and cleat nail ( or staple ) as usual.

 

[Bill_L]

So much good information here - thank you for all the responses. Some takeaways:

• Start in the hallway
• Screw down boards to use as my straight edge for laying the first pieces
• No need for transitions
• Use cleats / staples NOT nails
• Acclimate the wood
• No need to pull up the entire carpet - strips are simpler
• Splines / Slip-tongues for the flip direction - glued/cleated (in the video I watched the installer called it a slip-tongue)

Anything will be better than the 20+ year old carpet. There are things I've done around the house that aren't 'perfect' and they don't keep me up at night.

I need to figure out where to buy the flooring and if I spend some extra $$$ there considering I'll be saving on the installation. I'm reluctant to go to HD / Lowes. The price is cheaper but I'm concerned about the average size of the boards in those boxes. LL / Empire Today / Floor and Decor.

 

[Rwe2156]

There's so much good quality prefinished engineered flooring out there, I don't know why anyone would want to nail a solid wood floor down.

Just saying....When all said and one it you won't tell the difference.

And a whooooole lot less work!

 

[bphaynes]

Can you go through a hardwood dealer like Steve Wall or Hardwood Store of NC? Or maybe Hood Distribution? I got some plywood from them a few weeks ago, just need to spend at least $300 to order from them.

 

[Bill_L]

Can you go through a hardwood dealer like Steve Wall or Hardwood Store of NC? Or maybe Hood Distribution? I got some plywood from them a few weeks ago, just need to spend at least $300 to order from them.

The Hardwood Store of NC does not sell prefinished hardwood flooring. Their price for select red oak was $4.25 / character $3.95. I didn't know Steve was a hardwood dealer so will reach out to him. Thanks!

 

[thegator]

If you are around the Raleigh, Cary, Apex area, sometimes it's easier just to have a professional do it. They have all the equipment. I had some done in my house a few months ago by very competent individual and he was honest and price was good. Don't know if I could post his name and phone number on here. get back to me if you want it.

 

[Ricksmi]

Hello, I agree with many of the folks on here and lots of good advice. I put down over 2500 SqFt of Bruce finished hardwood in a small pet store. After several years of hard use by people and pets aside from some scratches it looks great and I also found you have room to refinish at least one time. I put the same flooring down in my house aproxamitly 2800 sqft in 2005 and with four dogs and 3 kids it looks great today still has a great shine and color has not faded at all. But lessons learned are to let the product acclimate for at least a week, run a straight line ( i use laser) and get the first long run as perfect as possible. Small mistakes can and will happen but when everything is finished no one will notice a small mistakes. I only use nails and top nail along the walls where the flooring nailer won't fit. BUT the most important thing to remember is get the sub floor level and smooth, and remember surface preparation is paramount. I sold that house in December 2022 (new owners loved the flooring) my new house here in Caldwell county I have just removed all carpet from the main level and orderd pre-finished hardwood (2330 Sq Ft). A friend from church is going to help me and his concern was he never put flooring down and is concerned if he makes a mistake, as I said mistakes happen and can be corrected by watching what your doing and don't rush the job. Enjoy the work and know that its your work so it will look good when everything is done.