RADII: Hoarding, jigs and math

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jim Murphy

New User
Fern HollowMan
Well, this is not a very detailed HOW TO, but it does instruct, so maybe it fits here. First, let's talk about hoarding.

I'm not sure if hoarding is a recognized mental defect, but I tend to think it is. If not, it should be. I obviously suffer from the disease. Since I got my big Rikon, I have wanted to make a radius jig. Nahm uses one, it's pretty simple to make, no need to provide how-to details on this, because one look at the picture (yes, below) will show you how I made mine. But back to the hoarding.

See, I have had this nice piece of 1/2" (approximate dimension these days) plywood stored in my wood hoard area. I went looking around for something to use to make my jig, and immediately my eyes went to the ply. Oh no, I can't use that for a jig... it's too nice. Now this was not baltic birch, or quartersawn sapele ply, it was what was left of a standard BORG panel I bought for something a while ago. I continued to look around. Nothing came to mind or sight. I deliberated. I contemplated. I even thought about it a while. Went back in the house and refreshed my coffee. Came back. Cogitated more.

I would have to rip a 24" wide piece of ply to 19", leaving a cutoff of only 5". What could I do with a 5X36 piece of ply? Should I cut only 18" (my bandsaw table is 19") so I would have a nice nominal width to save? More reflections and ruminations... Okay, what the heck. Let's rip at 19".

Anybody else go through this agony before you decide to ruin a wonderful piece of easily replaceable plywood to make a jig?

Okay, about jigs. There have been several postings lately about jigs and fixtures (and I won't belabor the difference in a jig and fixture, we'll just agree to call them both jigs). See, the thing is, deep within the psyche of the woodworker is the innate desire to make something useful. The time spent designing and making a jig is, at least to me, some of the most quality time I spend in the shop. When I finish, I have made a tool. Something of enduring practicality. A time saver perhaps, a means for achieving amazingly accurate repeated parts/pieces. But without doubt a joy to make and joy to use, perhaps something my grandchildren may one day find and remember their gramps, happy as a clam making stuff out of precious junk.

Okay, here it is:

DCP_0082.JPG


Like I said, nothing special. No difficult cuts, no fancy setup required to make it, just cobble it together from the precious hoard of wood you've been saving for just the right project. In use, there are two clamps holding the fixture (yes, this is really a fixture), I just popped one clamp on, strictly for photographic purposes. (You know, some safety guides have been removed...)

So, I just couldn't let this go without some math. I mean, how in the world do you figure out what the radius should be? If you can figger out the actual value of the radius (like when you're trying to match a pattern), you can easily replicate the cut.

Take a look:

DCP_0084.JPG


The tape measure lying on the assembly table is measuring the LONG CHORD. The combination square is measuring the MID ORDINATE. With these two dimensions, you can easily calculate the radius,

Here's the formula: R = (LC x LC / 8 X MO) + (MO /2)

If the formula puts you off, here's what you do. Multiply the long chord by itself and divide that result by the mid ordinate multiplied by 8. Then add half the mid ordinate. The result is the radius of the arc.

In the example above, the LC is 20" and the MO is 5" (I'm working with whole numbers for simplicity. When we multiply 20 x 20 we get 400. The MO (5) multiplied by 8 is 40. 400 divided by 40 is 10, and half of the MO is 2.5, so the radius in the picture is 10 + 2.5, or 12.5.

I opened the access door to my bandsaw and with a magic marker, I wrote the equation on the inside of the door. You know, right there where you need to find it next time you need to calculate and cut a radius (arc/curve).

And that's your math lesson for today.
 

MikeL

Michael
Corporate Member
I love your math lessons. You know what they say: "If you don't use it; you lose it." Well, I lost a lot of stuff that would really come in handy these days.

Thanks for the refresher!
 

DavidF

New User
David
I have that formula programmed into a very neat application called "Go Figure" for my iphone along with a couple others comes in handy a lot.
 

Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
Great post Jim. Fixture, jig, how about jixture. Make everyone happy. I find I have to re-learn a lot of math since I started woodworking. Basic trig functions, circles and ellipses, calculate everything to 5 decimal places.

Then cut the wrong end :)

And yes, I obsess over plywood the same way. And I can't bear to throw anything out.
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
I gotta stop lookin' at this site so early in th' mornin'. My head's startin' t' hurt!:eusa_thin
I had a formula similar to this I use but I'll hafta work on it when I'm more awake.... It has to do with hypothesizing and calculating the radius as it relates to 1/2 your LC and MO dimensions as they relate to a right triangle projected back to the radius point.
 

Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
Has any of this re-learning to do with metric vs. imperial?:rotflm:
I wish! That'd be easy. Unfortunately, remembering whether to divide the long side by the short side or vice versa the other way around is just as difficult whether the final dimension is metric or imperial.

For that matter, it doesn't matter whether you measured that board in inches or centimeters, too short is too short :rolf:

BTW, I'm still amazed circles have 360 degrees no matter which part of the world you're in....
 

Jim Murphy

New User
Fern HollowMan
BTW, I'm still amazed circles have 360 degrees no matter which part of the world you're in....

Google GRAD or GON. 400 units per total circle. Completely decimal, no bothersome 3600 seconds per degree needed.
Wiki details

Surveyors are digital by nature, but I remain convinced that a system where the tangent of 30° is 0.50 and the tangent of 45° is 1.00, and either sine or cosine of 45° is the same as the original big Boeing (707) is SHEER MAGIC.

Did you know I like math? Geometry and trig are your friends.

Did you ever ponder why a 3-4-5 triangle creates a perfect 100 gon angle? Ain't that neat?
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
The 3-4-5 thing didn't get lost in the Renaissance. The stone masons used a knotted string with 12 equally spaced knots as a square. 3,4, & 5 knots on a side made a right triangle while 4 on each side made a 60 degree angle. No need to be any more accurate than that for their work.
Glad to get your formula.:icon_thum I'd been doing it 'long hand' all these years, just never reduced the algebra to that formula. Had a job years ago where there were multiple arches of varying widths that were required to have the same mid chord height. Had to knock the cobwebs outa the attic for that one!
 

CaptnA

Andy
Corporate Member
Math a necessary evil

when my daughter was in 5th grade, I literally couldn't help her with her homework. Obtuse vs acute angles... So we learned together. Me a little, her a lot! I never had a lot of math and squeaked by with exactly the minimum credits of math to graduate.
I had 9 quarters of algebra. Yes, it was all algebra 1. I passed in time (barely) to graduate. Now I find myself having to teach algebra to firemen when I teach the hydraulics section of pumps. sheesh go figure!
Now just because I can doesn't mean I like it. Glad there are people that like it and are willing to help.
 

Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
Did you know I like math? Geometry and trig are your friends.
Yes they are. Even though I haven't had the opportunity to use a lot of the mathematics I learned in school, I'm still glad I took it. Never was particularly good at it, but it helps to know that if I needed to, I could re-learn it.
 
M

McRabbet

Well, this is not a very detailed HOW TO, but it does instruct, so maybe it fits here.
<snip>

Okay, here it is:

DCP_0082.JPG


Like I said, nothing special. No difficult cuts, no fancy setup required to make it, just cobble it together from the precious hoard of wood you've been saving for just the right project. In use, there are two clamps holding the fixture (yes, this is really a fixture), I just popped one clamp on, strictly for photographic purposes. (You know, some safety guides have been removed...)

So, I just couldn't let this go without some math. I mean, how in the world do you figure out what the radius should be? If you can figger out the actual value of the radius (like when you're trying to match a pattern), you can easily replicate the cut.

Take a look:

DCP_0084.JPG


The tape measure lying on the assembly table is measuring the LONG CHORD. The combination square is measuring the MID ORDINATE. With these two dimensions, you can easily calculate the radius,

Here's the formula: R = (LC x LC / 8 X MO) + (MO /2)

If the formula puts you off, here's what you do. Multiply the long chord by itself and divide that result by the mid ordinate multiplied by 8. Then add half the mid ordinate. The result is the radius of the arc.

In the example above, the LC is 20" and the MO is 5" (I'm working with whole numbers for simplicity. When we multiply 20 x 20 we get 400. The MO (5) multiplied by 8 is 40. 400 divided by 40 is 10, and half of the MO is 2.5, so the radius in the picture is 10 + 2.5, or 12.5.

I opened the access door to my bandsaw and with a magic marker, I wrote the equation on the inside of the door. You know, right there where you need to find it next time you need to calculate and cut a radius (arc/curve).

And that's your math lesson for today.

Oops... I need to be a Math Critic.... Your formula is wrong, Jim. You wrote it as
Here's the formula: R = (LC x LC / 8 X MO) + (MO /2)
and it should be written as:

Here's the formula: R = (LC x LC / (8 X MO)) + (MO /2)

Substituting your numbers into the formula, it becomes:

R = (20 x 20 / (8 x 5)) + (5/2) or (400 / 40) + (2.5) = 12.5

If you substituted the numbers into your formula, it would yield an incorrect result:

R = (20 x 20 / 8 x 5) + (5/2) or (20 x 2.5 x 5) + (2.5) = 252.5

Just one of those nasty old math rules rearing its ugly head :kamahlitu
 

Jim Murphy

New User
Fern HollowMan
Rob,

You be exactly correct, I bow in submission to your skillful critique. Offering an explanation rather than an excuse, for most of my professional life I ran an HP calculator that used RPN rather than algebraic notation. I still struggle with an "ordinary" calculator, having to use memories to store intermediate results. With RPN, the XYZT stack and registers made any calculation a snap. At least my verbal explanation and result were correct.

Mea culpa.

Jim (whose cat is enjoying licking the last remnants of the egg off my face)
 
M

McRabbet

Sorry 'bout that -- I was always fairly proficient at the basics of algebraic equations but Reverse Polish always confused me ... and I could never afford one of those fancy HP gizmos, just TI's.
 

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
Learned something I had forgotten with the math! I will keep that for future use!

As for hoarding boards, oh yes.... I am very bad for that. I have boards I have been saving for 10 years and should have used 5 years ago. As for plywood, I saved a special piece of 1/8" ply for about 3 years. That was until I realized at the time the Orange BORG stocked it in 2 ft by 4 ft sheets....:BangHead:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Premier Sponsor

Our Sponsors

Top