Radial Arm Saws

[patlaw]

What free safety kit?

 

[mkepke]

Mike, I have a RAS with dado setup that you can try. Works fine if you go slow but is very dangerous. My guess is if you tried mine you would scratch this off your want list

Phil - what makes you think it is "very dangerous" ? Is this because of self-feeding action ?

If the RAS will be restricted to crosscut duty (including dados), then I think a RAS can be made *very safe* by constructing a 'safety shield' like those in use on the RASs at Home Depot. The blade is fully enclosed.

Full disclosure: my RAS will try to self-feed if asked to take a big enough bite. The effect is very noticeable with a 3/4" wide x 1" deep single-pass dado in white oak. OTOH, the saw can take a 3/4" x 1" deep dado in white oak in a single pass

-Mark

 

[Glennbear]

What free safety kit?

Here is a link to the recall website, it appears that a new table is not included now:

http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/

 

[DaveD]

I'm obviously in the minority. I owned a table saw and a radial arm saw at the same time for a lot of years. Used them both on an ongoing basis. When I had to downsize my physical shop size I had to decide which saw to keep. I kept my 12" Craftsman Radial Arm saw. It's now 16 years later and I don't regret that decision at all.

I rip and crosscut with it. It will do almost 16" crosscuts. It will do rips a little over 16" wide. When I 1st bought the saw (new) I modified the table adjustment rails and put jacking screws under them. The original way of loosening 4 bolts and banging around on the table with a hammer to adjust it was a exercise in futility. I also modified how the fence got locked against the table. I have some custom made, industrial quality, portable, in/out feed roller tables too.

You will be very unhappy if you don't get the table aligned properly. Same for the motor carriage. Takes me probably a couple of hours to do from scratch but once done will stay that way forever. I'd say most people don't have the patience to do it right, hence the constant frustration and hate for the RAS. Having to get about 10 measurements to coexist within .001" isn't a 10 minute job.

To go from crosscut to rip takes 30 seconds. Loosen knob, pull up on locking taper pin. Rotate carriage 90 degrees, drop pin back down. Tighten knob. Done. I don't understand why anyone would have a problem doing that.

Anybody scared of cutting off a body part with the RAS better stay away from a SCMS too. You do have to keep your hands/fingers/thumbs connected to your eyes, through your brain, at all times.

Having said all that, I'm also in the boat that says use the router for dados and rabbits. I'm fairly adept at cobbling together a router sled and or custom router fence that allows me to efficiently do dados/rabbits for a particular job. The router of choice is usually my big hitachi, 3hp, 1/2" shank, with a custom 12"x12" lexan base.

I've got a picture of a big wall cabinet in Mike's post on Sketchup and plan dimensions that I built. All cuts were done with the RAS, router, CMS, or old fashioned skills saw.

Now, if you want to talk about a dangerous stationary power tool look no further than a decent sized home metal lathe that has about a 3 to 5 HP motor. My son won't even turn mine on. Doesn't like that big spinning chuck. A 200# human body won't even slow it down.

just be comfortable and safe. If you are not comfortable doing something you also are not safe.

 

[ehpoole]

But it takes so long to set up straight edges to make dadoes with a router. Maybe Joe will have some pointers at his workshop.

For through dados my preference is typically to use my tablesaw -- a RAS only has an advantage over a tablesaw for dados in boards that are quite long and too wide for a tablesaw. For slots (dados with the grain) the tablesaw is very much a winner over the RAS and less finicky in setup and maintain.

However, I would take issue with your comment above as to dados being difficult to setup with a router as I suspect it is more your methodology that is at issue. For dados and slots that are within 6-8" of a board edge you can use the OEM fence (available from your router's manufacturer) for your router to route the dado or slot and the only extra setup is in setting the initial offset -- which is even simpler if your straigtedge includes a micro-adjuster. Just measure from the fence to the nearest point of the bit's outermost cutter edge and you can determine what your offset is and adjust the guide accordingly.

However, even when it comes to setting up a straightedge as your guide, if you use a standard carpenter's combo square (available in lengths up to 2ft) and set its ruler equal to your desired offset plus your router's baseplate offset then you simply butt up your straightedge to the end of the square's ruler at each end and clamp the straightedge in place. There is a small amount of math when done this way, but it isn't difficult math since the diameter of your router's baseplate is a known (and never changes) and you know precisely what the bit's diameter will be -- or you can just take a straight measurement from the outer-edge of your bit's cutter and measure to the outside of your router's base and skip the math entirely and you'll know what your offset is (even without the math your estimation accuracy should be better than 1/32").

If you are doing many dados at multiple offsets in a project, a simple story stick will simplify your setup tremendously as you'll only need to figure things out once and you can duplicate your marks perfectly each and every time. You can even add the router's offset to the story stick (in a different color) to show precisely where to position the straightedge -- or you can make a small piece of wood that is equal to your router's offset for a given bit diameter and use that piece to figure out the offset for you -- lots of ways to do it depending upon what suits you best. Story sticks are tremendously under appreciated in modern woodworking, but they can save quite a lot of time and measurement!

 

[CrealBilly]

I have a personal friend who did cut off his lower arm with one of these saws. They have a limited purpose, crosscut, but were marketed for many other types of cuts with special attachments. I suggest a table saw and sliding miter saw.

As did one of my friends father. Not completely off mind you but almost and was a ugly accident. Like i said radial arm saws scare me. But you be your own judge...

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

 

[patlaw]

As did one of my friends father. Not completely off mind you but almost and was a ugly accident. Like i said radial arm saws scare me. But you be your own judge...

The thought makes me cringe, and I don't doubt what you're saying, but how did it happen? His arm was obviously in the blade's path.

 

[CrealBilly]

The thought makes me cringe, and I don't doubt what you're saying, but how did it happen? His arm was obviously in the blade's path.

I don't know exactly how it happened - i just seen the aftermath and it was not pretty - not pretty at all...

 

[Hmerkle]

Mike it is not too difficult for this to happen - remember that blade wants to climb (come at you) so if anything moves or you shift - things can happen FAST!

 

[patlaw]

Hank, I am not discounting the danger in the least. In my younger years, I wouldn't waste my time worrying about safety warnings and such. Now in my later years, safety concerns are almost paralyzing.

Someone taught me that when you are working with power tools, assume that the board instantly disappears. Where is your hand? So, with an RAS, if the saw climbs you, where is your arm?

I'm not criticizing people who get hurt. It happens to good people all the time.

 

[Gotcha6]

Had a shop teacher living across from my childhood home with a RAS in his personal shop. When he passed away I bought some of his tools including his RAS. He had a small cable attached to the motor carriage that went back to a pulley on the wall and down to a window weight. It proved very helpful in preventing the self feed effect as the operator had to make a more concerted effort to pull the saw through the wood. Having said that, the saw now sits in my dad's shop along with his RAS. He uses them both from time to time. I have 1 in my shop that I use for rough cutting boards and 2 more sitting on shelves 'just in case'.
People are wise to fear this tool. People are wise to fear ALL power tools. They are not vegetarians. No one should attempt to operate any power tool without at least acquiring a fundamental knowledge of its potential to do harm. If you are not comfortable operating a power tool, that is fine, but you also should never become complacent with them either. JMTCW

 

[lnelson]

After being a woodworker for about 30 years I finally added a Radial Arm Saw to my shop a few months ago and am very happy that I did. I bought a Ridgid (Home Depot) unit on craigslist for $175 and was very pleased with the quality of the tool. It seems to be pretty well guarded so I do not consider it to be any more dangerous than any of my other tools. Yes, it takes up a fair amount of shop space but I was pretty strategic on the bed I made for it. I use it mostly for one thing; crosscuts on plywood. I do quite a bit of cabinet work and always struggled with getting perfectly square cuts on base and upper cabinet plywood sides. Now every cut is dead on. Maybe if I had a big Delta Unisaw or something else like this the table saw would do just as well but my table saw is a level or two down from that.

In my mind, a table saw is much more versatile than the radial arm, but it was a good shop add just the same.

 

[Bob Carreiro]

+1 Larry

 

[Charlie]

I have been using a Craftsman RAS since 1970. I use it strictly for 90 degree cuts. Most used piece of equipment in the shop.
As with Dennis, I have 3 others in storage "just in case".

 

[Rick M]

We had a Rockwell Delta RAS in our HS shop and we were all taught how to use it safely for ripping, cross cutting, and dadoes. Ironically the shop teacher had cut one of his fingers off on a RAS but he was the first to say that it was his own fault for putting his hand in the path of the blade. I always felt comfortable using it though, it was a very versatile tool. If I had room in my shop I would definitely own one if I could find a good one.

 

[Gotcha6]

An aftermarket laser disc washer that would work on a RAS would be a great safety feature. HF sells one but I believe it is for 1/2" arbors and not 5/8". I'd be tempted to modify one if I knew it could be drilled accurately enough to not cause an imbalance.

 

[Pop Golden]

I started my own shop with a Craftsman RAS in the early 60s. It was my only stand alone tool. I did everything with it. That old saw would NOT hold a square 90 dergee angle (design flaw). I replaced it with a Delta and love it. I use the RAS, table & miter saws for things I feel thay are most suted for. These are good machines and much more accurate than a SMS. Those small rails or tubes are not the rigid cast iron arm on the RAS.

As for self feeding, the problem is solved by using the proper blade a -5 degree hook. That blade is made for RAS & SMS use.

When it comes to safety, as I tell my grand kids if it cuts wood it WILL cut you. Don't stick your fingers in the way. People (including myself) do stupid things that sometimes result in accidents. Many years ago I knew a cabinet maker who hated Shopsmiths. I don't mean disliked I mean he really hated Shopsmiths. I have used Shopsmiths all my woodworking life (over 60 years) and was somewhat set back by this guys hate. "What did a Shopsmith do to you" I asked? "One killed my business partner" was the answer. Now for the life of me I couldn't understand how a Shopsmith could "kill" someone. Here's how this dummy managed to get it done. He was trimming screen doors. He set the machine up in the vertical (drill press) mode. Raised the head as far up as it would go. Put on the saw blade with no table over it and went to trimming. The blade became loose, fell off and decapitated our boy. SO! if you work at it, I mean really really work at it you can make a home shop power tool kill you.

PS: I have and use a laser washer on my RAS. If that red line crosses a body part MOVE IT.

Pop