Questions about how to buy wood

[Canuck]

Has anyone ever seen or heard of a class to educate us on how to calculate board feet and how to buy wood? I would love a hands on class regarding this. Education can really help in these situations.__________________
Anna-Catherine

"Sharp Blades are the safest blades!"


The thread on Steve D's experience at a wood supplier evolved into this which I think is great information that deserves it's own place.

Dave:smile:



Anna,

Found this board foot calculator a week ago or so.....

http://ncwoodworker.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1627&highlight=board+feet

It may help with 1st part of your question. Now. What to look for in the way of quality of wood --- that question I'll leave to experts here at this great site.

Wayne

 

[Steve D]

Re: Negative experience with Gennett Lumber in Asheville

Dawn,

Selecting lumber etc. is a great topic. I am not an expert but have bought enough good and bad lumber to have a pretty good idea of what to look out for. Unfortunately, most lumber businesses view hobby woodworkers as more of a nuisance that anything else. Their core customer base are the cabinet shops and custom furniture people that buy in much larger quantities. Some of that disdain is desrved because of the behavior of people combing through their lumber racks and leaving them a mess. Good behaviour generally builds good relationships.

I've worked too hard trying to get decent useable lumber out of past bargains. Ultimately based upon time and yield, cheap lumber costs more than higher grade lumber. I prefer to deal on a repeat basis with a few businesses and work toward developing a relationship. Most dealers have their price sheets broken down in columns and the pricing difference is huge between what they give to a "walk in", an established customer and a large established customer. I don't expect the same price as the really big guy but I also don't expect to pay last column walk in prices. I have typically found that I get better prices by calling first and knowing how to speak the lingo (100 bd ft 8/4 walnut FAS, S2S, straight line rip, etc.). Get a name and or a quote number and bring that with you. I've also found it to be helpful to set up an account with lumber dealers even if it is only COD. I will typically do this when I have a larger purchase as the account is usually set up with a dicount code that they will refer to for future quotes.

Most places allow you to select your own lumber but get really ticked if you mess up the racks. I generally buy S2S to save time and you can also see flaws in the wood easily. I've always debated getting a moisture meter but never have. If I were buying from a smaller sawmill, I would definitely get a moisture meter. I generally look for flat straight boards with few knots and make sure that I look at both sides. I typically buy FAS or Select grades only.

 

[Sharp Blade]

Re: Negative experience with Gennett Lumber in Asheville

Cool link, thanks so much.

 

[McRabbet]

Re: Negative experience with Gennett Lumber in Asheville

Anna-Catherine,

When you go to almost any hardwood lumber dealer, they measure boards with a Lumber/Board Ruler (here's an example) that allows each board to be measured quickly. These rules have markings on each side that are graduated for different length stock -- usually 8', 10' and 18' on one side and 12', 14' and 16' on the other. Pallets of stock are usually of boards of the same thickness -- e.g., 4/4 = 1" thick (boards are always measured in 1/4" increments), or 8/4 = 2" thick, and so on. So, if you are selecting a board from a stack of 8-foot 4/4 lumber, they measure only the width. If it is 6" wide, it will read 4-0, for 4 board feet. The person doing the tallying will usually round up to the nearest measure mark (a board 5-1/2" wide will be tallied as a 6" wide board). Steve's original problem related to this round-up, but it was clear that a bit of skulduggery was at hand.

Here's a handy 1-page "calculator" you can carry with you when you buy lumber so you can quickly estimate your tally. Just remember to multiply by 1-1/2 for 6/4 and by 2 for 8/4 stock.

Rob

Edit: Fixed the Calculator Link -- in our Download Library

 

[rickc]

Re: Negative experience with Gennett Lumber in Asheville

Also, this brings up a good question. Has anyone ever seen or heard of a class to educate us on how to calculate board feet and how to buy wood? I would love a hands on class regarding this. Education can really help in these situations.

Another shameless plug - The Triangle Woodworkers Association will be having as the subject matter for the September meeting something that comes very close...

Program Topic: Selecting Wood

Speaker: Scott Dry
Wood Scientist, BTh, MTh, OM, BS, MWPS.

Scotty is a member of NCSU Chapter of ΞΣΠ and the National Forestry Honor Society. He has taught classes at NC State and at Woodcraft and specializes in wood identification, properties, utilization, dendrology and botany. He has an extensive wood collection from all over the world and will share with us how to select the right wood for a project.


Don't know how far you are willing to drive, but this might be of interest. Might also want to check out Woodcraft & Klingspor class schedules as well, sometimes they cover topics such as this, as well.

 

[cskipper]

Re: Negative experience with Gennett Lumber in Asheville

Maybe it's just me, but that link doesn't go anywhere. Are you taking lessons from insom? :-?

Steve, we'd be happy to participate in a letter writing campaign if you think that would help.

 

[rickc]

Re: Negative experience with Gennett Lumber in Asheville

Maybe it's just me, but that link doesn't go anywhere. Are you taking lessons from insom? :-?

Are you talking about the TWA link? I just clicked on it and it worked. I did have a typo when I first published it, so if you tried it right away, you may have beat me to the fix.

 

[Ozzie-x]

Re: Negative experience with Gennett Lumber in Asheville

There's national wood organizations that set the rules and standards for figuring footage, grading lumber, etc. These are the standards that govern all lumber prducts. I don't remember their exact names, but surf the web and you'll find the orgs and the standards. Being familiar with the standards will be a big help when visiting the lumber yard.

 

[helmswatch]

Re: Negative experience with Gennett Lumber in Asheville

I just tried the calculator link and got this msg. http://ncwoodworker.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1695 requested /forums/finishsupply.com/BoardMeasure.pdf But it does not exist! So I edited it to http://finishsupply.com/BoardMeasure.pdf and I got the correct site.

 

[cskipper]

Re: Negative experience with Gennett Lumber in Asheville

Thanks.

 

[D L Ames]

Here is a link to an article about buying cabinet quality lumber. And another link to an article about understanding hardwood grades. And one more link to easy board foot calculations.

D L

 

[clowman]

Re: Negative experience with Gennett Lumber in Asheville

I read an article once somewhere, on board feet pricing. It had a section on their pricing vs other pricing. One thing that the article pointed out was that some places priced their measurements based on size before shrinkage. It is exactally what you are describing. I will try to find that source. But I'm not hopeful.

 

[DaveO]

Great links D L!!! Thanks, Dave

 

[Steve D]

Re: Negative experience with Gennett Lumber in Asheville

Clay, I've seen places round up, I've seen places charge for bd feet of the rough lumber when selling S2S, I could even understand a reasonable factor for shrinkage but to me, 33% is a bit of overkill.

I read an article once somewhere, on board feet pricing. It had a section on their pricing vs other pricing. One thing that the article pointed out was that some places priced their measurements based on size before shrinkage. It is exactally what you are describing. I will try to find that source. But I'm not hopeful.

 

[erasmussen]

The last time I got some wood my wife went with me, she went to pay for it while i loaded the truck.
I dont know what she said to the lady in the office but she paid half of what i had been paying:eusa_doh:

 

[DaveO]

She probably had a coupon, my wife always has a coupon:lol: :lol: You need to go wood shopping with her more often.

Dave

 

[helmswatch]

She probably had a coupon, my wife always has a coupon:lol: :lol: You need to go wood shopping with her more often.

Dave

That busted Irene & I up. Irene was at Lowe's with her friend to pick up some hand tools for me. When the clerk rang up prices not in line with a store circular, Irene dug into to her "Coupon Purse." (Definition-an auxiliary piece of luggage that thrifty women tend to carry in additional to and often times twice as large as any steamer trunk) She pulled out a plethora of coupons and ads and laid them on the checkout table. About that time the automatic doors of the store opened and POOF! The entire front of Lowe's rivaled any ticker-tape parade on NY's 5th Ave.

Duke

 

[D L Ames]

That busted Irene & I up. Irene was at Lowe's with her friend to pick up some hand tools for me. When the clerk rang up prices not in line with a store circular, Irene dug into to her "Coupon Purse." (Definition-an auxiliary piece of luggage that thrifty women tend to carry in additional to and often times twice as large as any steamer trunk) She pulled out a plethora of coupons and ads and laid them on the checkout table. About that time the automatic doors of the store opened and POOF! The entire front of Lowe's rivaled any ticker-tape parade on NY's 5th Ave.

Duke

:rotflm::rotflm::rotflm::rotflm:

Man............you just gotta love a parade!

D L

 

[cskipper]

But, did she get the better price???

It's a shame my husband's wife doesn't carry coupons.

 

[walnutjerry]

Hello Wayne-------try to get hold of a copy of the National Hardwood Association lumber calculator and grade book. It can be a little confusing. The jist of it is that hardwoods are graded from one face and placed in grade according to how many clear cuttings you can get out of the board. Now--------you have to know there definition of a clear cutting. Example: a cutting can be 2" wide and 7' long or 3"wide and 5' long. To be in grade, the lumber can have small tight knots and splits on the ends no greater than 1" per foot of board length.

I had to deal with "grades" while working with a millwork company. It helps to find out the sequence of grades to begin with----then you can better understand what to expect when you go to buy.

Luck to you, Jerry