Question about working Spalted Woods.

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Truefire

New User
Chris
Hey guys i have worked spalted woods before but this time around i managed to harvest a red maple myself that has a lot of colored zone lines which i plan on turning eventually. So needless to say i have somewhat larger quantity of it than i normally do.

Thus generating a concern for me. I am wondering if when the wood is turned as to whether or not the airborne hyphae is gonna create problems when it settles in amongst my other stored woods in my shop area. I guess being the shop is dry and there isn't a moisture problem inside there i probably don't have anything to worry about. But i am not completely sure as to what these fungal spores are capable of doing when produced in large quantities (airborne sawdust).

Thanks guys, Chris

Beautiful Red Spalted Maple
SpaltedMaple1.jpg

SpaltedMaple3.jpg
 

Dragon

New User
David
Hum? More technical stuff than I can help ya with there. I do have a little experience with spalted Ambrosia Maple but since I do all my work outside, I don't know that I really have a concern with cros contamination. You might wanna give Bluthart a shout-out. He's done a spalted turning for me and some for himself so if there's any issues, he'd by the one I'd go to first. Looking forward to reading the responses here. I can tell you the spalting and the resultant colors are amazing when finished out.
 

DaveO

New User
DaveO
I agree with Jeff, if the wood is dry, even air dried there isn't enough moisture for the spores/fungal particles to live and infect other woods. You have nothing to worry about from that aspect. It would be a good idea to protect yourself from the dust for the general reasons and the fact that you have enough moisture. That said I have turned a lot of spalted wood, and have not spalted myself.

Dave:)
 

stave

New User
stave
For wood to spalt there has to be at least 20% moisture content and even then it is not a sure thing. The spores may linger but I doubt that anything will come of it. It would be a good idea to wear a good respirator (as always). Mold spores can cause problems reegardless of where they come from.
Hope this helps.
Stave
 

Barbara Gill

New User
Barbara
Before I started woodworking but after I had started sawing I subscribed to several magazines. I think one was called WoodShop News. There was an article published after the author had died of some lung ailment attributed to spalted wood. I think it must have been before I started keeping the magazine. I have not been able to find the article again. Needless to say it made a big impression on me. That is when I started wearing my North respirator with dust filters. http://www.sharpesafety.com/catalog/product-display.php3?ID=523

I still wear the North in the sawmill as well as when turning, especially with spalted wood.
 

Dusty Sawyer

New User
David
I cannot tell you how much I'm aware of the dust issue. Last night I turned some Cedar which had a bit of some soft spongy rot in one area. I was only roughing and didn't think to turn on the dust collector even. Long story short - I woke up this morning with a sinus headache comparable to an all night party hangover.

Don't mess with the dust or the dust will mess with you. Nobody wants to be spalted.


David
 

Mark Stewart

New User
Mark
I agree with Jeff, if the wood is dry, even air dried there isn't enough moisture for the spores/fungal particles to live and infect other woods. You have nothing to worry about from that aspect. It would be a good idea to protect yourself from the dust for the general reasons and the fact that you have enough moisture. That said I have turned a lot of spalted wood, and have not spalted myself.

Dave:)

Now Daveo dont we have to cut you open to really find out if you have spalted on the inside?:rotflm::rotflm::rotflm::rotflm::rotflm::rotflm::rotflm::rotflm:
 

Truefire

New User
Chris
Yeah thanks guys for all of your advice and such i knew that wood has to have three factors in order for hypha to develop spalting in woods:

20% moisture content
20-30% oxygen content
temperature range 70-90 degrees

I was just thinking, maybe analyzing, about the spores as they would lie about in the shop as to whether or not they would eventually die off or could be activated if introduced to moisture or such at some time. So i thought i would just open up a can of worms for the heck of it. Of course realizing the dangers of same if introduced into the human body's respiratory system whereby all three factors are present. Wow, mycellium growing inside your lungs, eeee!!!

Interesting to hear what everyone has had to say. My wife is so worried about breathing in some microscopic fungal spores that she literally runs away from the shop, understandably so, when i am working with spalted woods. I wouldn't expect her to do any less, it's just to watch her move, one would think i was turning dynamite by her response.

I'll tell you, just think of all the woodworkers of past that weren't educated in the arena of biology and such and developed ailments unbeknowst to them that could have been related to the woods they had been working.

So that was all the more the reasoning behind the post here was to derive further education from various backgrounds and to hear what you guys had to say.

Thanks, Chris

Oh by the way if any of you guys are familiar with any magazine articles located online about the health effects that this 'little booger' has on lungs please include same here in this thread.

Thanks again, Chris
 

kaysa

New User
Dr. Spalting
Hello Truefire,

I research spalting as part of my PhD work. First off, I want to point you to this blog entry:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item...ociated-with-spalted-wood-and-debunking-myths

And for a bit more in-depth:

Yes, the spores could land on your other wood. But if the wood is dry, the spores can't germinate. Get the wood and they might. Some fungal spores can live for centuries, others for hours in stasis. Wood decay fungi aren't know for their great ability to remain dormant for long periods of time. I'd estimate that most have stasis lives under a year.

The article someone referred to about some woodworker who died of some lung infection from turning spalting wood is bunk. This spalting paranoia is one of my biggest pet peeves. I cannot say this enough wood dust is far more harmful to your lungs than wood-spalting fungal spores! Wood dust is a carcinogen, as is all fine particulate matter. Fungi that spalt wood can't spalt you. Where is the wood? Wood decay fungi utilize cellulose and lignin - components of the wood cell wall. So unless you have some mystery tree growing inside you, there is no need to worry.

A lot of the diseases people refer to in regards to spalted wood are from several other causes:
1) not wearing a respirator. And from here we go into the whole 'wood dust will kill you, so don't blame the fungus' irritation
2) mold spores from the air landing on your wood and doing some light surface colonization. Some people have allergies to these molds.
3) people with compromised immune systems being near spalted wood. If you have AIDS, asthma, etc, you shouldn't work with spalted wood. Some of the molds can irritate your respiratory track and allow other infections in

You may be interested to know that the whole 'black mold causing asthma' stories that abounded several years ago have all been debunked. Black mold, while it may produce mycotoxins, would have to be inhaled in enormous quantities to do any real damage, unless one already had asthma to begin with.

You can tell your wife to relax as well. If she has ever been hiking in the woods then she has been exposed to the exact same spores that are in your woodshop. She didn't die from her hike and she won't die from this either. People are far, far to excitable when it comes to fungus. There may be lots of woodworkers out there preaching about how spalted wood did XX to them, but I think you'll find that if you question them, they didn't have proper air filtration in their shops and took a lot of wood dust in their lungs. I don't know of any mycologists, young or old, who have any lung issues, and we work with fungus 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for years.

If you are still super concerned, I suggest googling some of the most common spalting fungi and checking out their modes of action. See if they produce mycotoxis. Here are a few to try:

Trametes versicolor
Xylaria polymorpha
Polyporus brumalis
Chlorociboria
sp.

And feel free to let me know if you need more information. Remember, don't blame the fungi, because it isn't their fault!
 

scsmith42

New User
Scott Smith
Regarding working with spalted woods, a couple of years ago I made a project out of some oak boards that had spalted sapwood. Some of the sawdust got under my shirt and pinched in-between the shirt and my body (at the point where my belt went around my pants).

I ended up with a skin rash where the dust lay that wouldn't go away with normal soap and water, despite repeated scrubbings. After several weeks, I finally used an anti-fungal creme lifted from my wife's vet kit, and that did the trick.

Apparently the spores were reactivated based upon any water / perspiration that existed against my skin. I'd hate to think of what they'd do inside my lungs.

When I'm milling, or working with any type of spalted woods, I use a respirator or very high quality mask.

Scott
 

kaysa

New User
Dr. Spalting
"I ended up with a skin rash where the dust lay that wouldn't go away with normal soap and water, despite repeated scrubbings. After several weeks, I finally used an anti-fungal creme lifted from my wife's vet kit, and that did the trick."

What you've described sounds very much like an allergy reaction to the spores. This can be very common, especially in the USA where our desire for clean houses has made many of our immune systems hyper sensitive. I'm glad you got the rash under control! My guess would be that a topical antihistimine would have also done the trick.
 

scsmith42

New User
Scott Smith
"I ended up with a skin rash where the dust lay that wouldn't go away with normal soap and water, despite repeated scrubbings. After several weeks, I finally used an anti-fungal creme lifted from my wife's vet kit, and that did the trick."

What you've described sounds very much like an allergy reaction to the spores. This can be very common, especially in the USA where our desire for clean houses has made many of our immune systems hyper sensitive. I'm glad you got the rash under control! My guess would be that a topical antihistimine would have also done the trick.

Seri, thanks for chiming in! I'll keep that in mind in the future.

By the way, in the next few weeks I'll be milling some magnolia logs that I've allowed to spalt for a year. I'm anxious to see how it turns out; I'm hoping to see some unusually patterned wood.

Are there any species that are indigious to the SE U.S. that you feel offer the best spalted patterns?

Thanks, and regards.

Scott
 

kaysa

New User
Dr. Spalting
Seri, thanks for chiming in! I'll keep that in mind in the future.

By the way, in the next few weeks I'll be milling some magnolia logs that I've allowed to spalt for a year. I'm anxious to see how it turns out; I'm hoping to see some unusually patterned wood.

Are there any species that are indigious to the SE U.S. that you feel offer the best spalted patterns?

Thanks, and regards.

Scott

Are you referring to wood or fungi? The Ohio DNR published that pale woods with low extractive contents spalt the best, but I think after 5 years of researching spalting that I disagree to some extent. Maple, especially the soft maples, spalt well, but so do basswood and aspen.

Stick with hardwoods that don't have a lot of natural decay resistance. Oaks aren't the greatest spalters, and I think you have a fair few of those in the SE. Birch spalted moderately well, but really does well with bleaching and zone lines.

If you were referring to fungi let me know, and I'll get into that a bit.

Best of luck!
Seri
 

kaysa

New User
Dr. Spalting
I cannot tell you how much I'm aware of the dust issue. Last night I turned some Cedar which had a bit of some soft spongy rot in one area. I was only roughing and didn't think to turn on the dust collector even. Long story short - I woke up this morning with a sinus headache comparable to an all night party hangover.

Don't mess with the dust or the dust will mess with you. Nobody wants to be spalted.


David

More than likely you've developed a sensitivity to cedar, not to the fungus. Cedar allergies and sensitivities are more common than most people know. I know I have a mighty allergy to cedar - planing, sanding, anything that releases the aromatics will put me into a huge sneezing fit.

Hope your sinuses clear!
Seri
 
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