Question about Dyeing

[ebarr]

I am in the process of making a Baby Cradle out of Sapele for a very good friend. She has decided to go with a very dark furniture and I am afraid that the baby cradle is will clash with her other furniture unless I can darken it up significantly. Thought about dying the sapele, but have never messed with dyes before. Watched a Charles Neal video on it but wanted to get everyone's opinion on it.

 

[Bill Clemmons]

Any time I need to "color" wood I prefer dyes rather than stains. I use the water-soluable powder dyes by J.E. Moser from Woodworker's Supply. A little bit goes a long way, and you can mix them as diluted or concentrated as you need to get a specific color. You can also apply a second or third coat if you need to darken the color. They can be topcoated w/ any finish without having to apply dewaxed shellac in between. Also, if you prefinish and accidentally get the dye on a part that is to be glued later, the w-s dye doesn't inhibit the glue from adhering.

HTH

Bill

 

[Jeff]

I have limited experience with the Trans Tint dyes. They're also very concentrated like the dyes that Bill uses. They are water, alcohol, and shellac soluble.

http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/TransTint.htm

 

[JWBWW]

Best advice I know was given to me by a technical guy at Behlen/Star/Mohawk... RPM. Find the color you want by way of samples on scraps. Then dilute to 50% or even 25% so that you can sneak up on your color when spraying very light coats. His suggestion of spray that just "kisses" the wood has always stayed with me. Wet is not a good thing when spraying dye. And remember that the dye will look faded and pale when the solvent (alcohol or water) flashes off quickly. Remember the color your eyes saw when it first kissed the wood as that is the color that will reappear when applying finish topcoats.

 

[ebarr]

I have learned quite a bit about dyes in the past 24 hours. JWBWW, That is probably the route I will take, I am really worried about the dye drying and leaving overlap marks. Sneaking up on it sounds like the way to go.

One more question, I have seen a lot about the dye fading over time? how much fade are we talking and over what length of time?

 

[Bill Clemmons]

As John pointed out, the color fades considerably as soon as the solvent drys. Think about how wet wood lightens as soon as it drys. I haven't noticed any additional fading over time, but that's probably because I top coat most pieces w/ shellac, lacquer, or varnish, and they aren't exposed to a lot of sunlight.

John also mentioned spraying dye. I've found that I seem to get the best results when I wipe it on w/ a soft cotton rag. I keep wiping until the wet spots have all soaked into the wood. That lessens the overlaps you asked about. Also, any overlaps usually blend in w/ a second coat.

Bill

 

[fergy]

I find I get much better results when I spray it, but I rub it down with a rag as I go to keep it really even and eliminate any overlap marks. I found with wiping it on that I wasn't getting as much color as I wanted. When spraying, you do several light coats to sneak up on the color you want. Just remember that it will lighting as the solvent evaporates, but the color will come back when you top coat it.

Certain dyes are not as color fast as others. Just research the brand you are using.

Another source for dye is Wurth Wood Group. They can color match whatever you determine you like. They sell the ML Campbell acetone-based dye. Very NGR and very fast drying. I'm probably going to have them match some Behlens NGR since I can't get it in the quantity I want without spending a fortune.

 

[JWBWW]

I have read and been told that waterborne dyes are more fade resistant than alcohol ones. I've not noticed much difference in practice... but perhaps I am not old enough yet. It seems that once properly topcoated and not in direct UV light exposure you should be fine with either. Most of the tiger/curly/birds eye maple that I have dyed have had both waterborne and alcohol: waterborne for the initial wash coats that penetrate open figure. Once dry I sand pretty much all of it leaving just color in the curl/figure. Then I use super diluted "kiss coats" of alcohol to get to my desired color. I once again suggest that you trust your eyes and your memory as these alcohol dye coats will flash very quickly leaving you with what looks like a dull and forgotten piece.

I have tried and tried to find success using a rag or similar with dye and found it to be less than satisfactory for light color application (for dark it doesn't much matter as most of the natural wood is being obscured). By spraying really light "coats" there is never any wet leading edge so as a consequence there should be no need to wipe and overlap is pretty easy to avoid once you adjust hand speed and distance from the work.

Good luck.

John

 

[Matt Furjanic]

Take a look at this sapele night stand I stained with "Java" Gel Stain by General Finishes. (sold at Woodcraft). I have made several sapele pieces and used this stain with excellent results. The piece is at least as dark as it appears in this picture. Matt...

 

[ebarr]

WOW...Very Nice

 

[cskipper]

That's really stunning! Maybe I'll get over my hesitation and try some dyes too. Thanks for sharing.

 

[fergy]

Matt's project used a gel pigment stain, not a dye. Two different things...

Another trick that I'm using now on a project is to dye the wood with a sprayable dye, then apply an oil stain over that. It's just one more variation on color, and it will accentuate the grain even more. You can use a pigmented stain, or any other oil to pop the figure a little more than you would get with the dye alone.